BaL 01.06.2024 - Elgar: Symphony 1

[oliver sudden]

My own introduction to Elgar might not be much help to you, as it was the Larghetto from the second symphony .

I would certainly say: don’t give up before hearing that. One of my great Elgar appreciation moments was that searing violin line cutting through everything at the climax.

Of the shorter things, Sospiri has always done it for me. Actually the subject of this very thread would also be high up my list of Elgar-for-people-who-don’t-like-Elgar-yet tips.

[Barbirollians]

Hi, vinteuil, re your 'starting point' in listening, I'd suggest some of Elgar's lighter music. He loved Mozart and I often hear the influence in subtle ways in his lighter works such as the 'Spanish Lady ' and 'Wand of Youth ' suites.

My own introduction to Elgar might not be much help to you, as it was the Larghetto from the second symphony . Michael Kennedy has written about the extraordiary quality of Elgar's music to inspire an instant lifelong devotion, (e.g. Ivor Atkins hearing the premiere of Froissart) and mine was a classic case . It was the first record I bought, at the age of 13, sides five and six of the 1927 recording (D1232) bought for tuppence at a jumble sale at my sister's school (I have it still,as a decoration on the wall of my CD store). I played it and my life was changed from that instant; nothing remotely like it had happened to me before; I was overwhelmed , and I can say of Elgar what Vaughan Williams said about Whitman : 'I've never got over him, I'm glad to say'.

Roger, you are so right about the Ken Russell film, and the tragedy is it wouldn't be at all expensive for the BBC to do high quality films about music today; they just don't want to.

I reckon playing the Larghetto from Barbirolli's 1960s recording of Elgar 2 might convert anyone !

[gradus]

I reckon playing the Larghetto from Barbirolli's 1960s recording of Elgar 2 might convert anyone !

If I were trying to persuade an Elgar sceptic, I think I'd try The Serenade for Strings or The Sun goeth down or the Windflower theme from the vln concerto to offset any pre-conceived notions about 'pomp and circumstance'.

[Cockney Sparrow]

If I were trying to persuade an Elgar sceptic, I think I'd try The Serenade for Strings or The Sun goeth down or the Windflower theme from the vln concerto to offset any pre-conceived notions about 'pomp and circumstance'.

I recall an early teenage purchase of an EMI Album of extracts of Elgar works - I can recall rhe triumphal march from Caractacus and the wonderful rendition of "The Sun Goeth Down" by Margaret Price*. The aria led to borrowing (from the record library) then buying The Kingdom complete recording. The start of numerous other Elgar recordings.

*Easily found on You Tube

[hmvman]

For me, again the 'lighter' works such as the Serenade for Strings and also works such as the Serenade Lyrique and Mazurka. I took to the I & A quite early on and it's still one of my favourite Elgar works (I'm very fond of Britten's recording of it). For something meatier I would go for 'In the South' (Alassio) with its gorgeous orchestration. I also love the Organ Sonata which doesn't seem to be broadcast much these days.

[Roger Webb]

For me, again the 'lighter' works such as the Serenade for Strings and also works such as the Serenade Lyrique and Mazurka. I took to the I & A quite early on and it's still one of my favourite Elgar works (I'm very fond of Britten's recording of it). For something meatier I would go for 'In the South' (Alassio) with its gorgeous orchestration. I also love the Organ Sonata which doesn't seem to be broadcast much these days.

Do you approve of the orchestration of the Organ Sonata by Gordon Jacob? Returning the compliment that Elgar payed to Bach, in a way!

I love the Vernon Handley disc on EMI Eminence with the RLPO which apart from the above has both Wand of Youth Suites. Produced by Andrew Keener and engineered by Mike Hatch.

Long gone from the catalogue, I fear, but this on eBay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364904893597

[Pulcinella]

Do you approve of the orchestration of the Organ Sonata by Gordon Jacob? Returning the compliment that Elgar payed to Bach, in a way!

I love the Vernon Handley disc on EMI Eminence with the RLPO which apart from the above has both Wand of Youth Suites. Produced by Andrew Keener and engineered by Mike Hatch.

Long gone from the catalogue, I fear, but this on eBay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364904893597

A 1995 Proms performance (BBCCO/Handley) featured on BBC MM CD volume 26, number 9.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Elgar-Variations-Cockaigne-Overture-Mackerras/dp/B07GGXYBTQ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=21JXQ5KWWC2LZ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.vKt3ju7neYgUkwMD6ah98w.KYbT2ltrFAcsRRTlQj1APMq8R6QAOQMlqgbuPgl3hDw&dib_tag=se&keywords=Elgar+enigma+mena&qid=1717569196&s=music&sprefix=elgar+enigma+mena%2Cpopular%2C54&sr=1-1

[Roger Webb]

A 1995 Proms performance (BBCCO/Handley) featured on BBC MM CD volume 26, number 9.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Elgar-Varia...ar%2C54&sr=1-1

I don't remember that performance, what else was in the Prom? In a way, playing it with the orchestra when you've the Albert Hall organ sitting there would seem a bit.......like going to the Gavroche and eating a take-away there!

[Pulcinella]

I don't remember that performance, what else was in the Prom? In a way, playing it with the orchestra when you've the Albert Hall organ sitting there would seem a bit.......like going to the Gavroche and eating a take-away there!

Indeed!

From the Proms archive:

Sat 22 Jul 1995

• 19:30
  Prom 02
  Royal Albert Hall
  
  Programme
  • • • Edward Elgar
      • Sonata for Organ No. 1 in G major, Op 28 (orch. Gordon Jacob) Proms premiere of this orchestration
    • • William Walton
      • Cello Concerto
    • • Ralph Vaughan Williams
      • Symphony No. 6 in E minor
  Performers
  • Colin Carr
    soloist
  • BBC Concert Orchestra
  • Vernon Handley
    conductor

[Roger Webb]

Indeed!

From the Proms archive:

Sat 22 Jul 1995

• 19:30
  Prom 02
  Royal Albert Hall
  
  Programme
  • • • Edward Elgar
      • Sonata for Organ No. 1 in G major, Op 28 (orch. Gordon Jacob) Proms premiere of this orchestration
    • • William Walton
      • Cello Concerto
    • • Ralph Vaughan Williams
      • Symphony No. 6 in E minor
  Performers
  • Colin Carr
    soloist
  • BBC Concert Orchestra
  • Vernon Handley
    conductor

Thanks Pulcinella, I don't remember that concert. Mid 90s I would have been there for that - I must have been away, probably in France or Germany.

It would have been nice to have the whole Prom on the BBC MM CD wouldn't it.

[hmvman]

Do you approve of the orchestration of the Organ Sonata by Gordon Jacob? Returning the compliment that Elgar payed to Bach, in a way!

Yes, I do like that orchestration but I haven't heard it for a long time and I don't think I have a recording of it. Must remedy that!

[Roger Webb]

Yes, I do like that orchestration but I haven't heard it for a long time and I don't think I have a recording of it. Must remedy that!

See my post above at #156, I think eBay have a couple for sale.

[Roger Webb]

As this seems to have become a general 'Elgar' thread....and we're discussing orchestrations of his works, my I ask a question about the Severn Suite?

I've been having a correspondence with a good friend who's an Elgar Soc. member and writes programme notes for one of our orchestras. It started because the brass (original) version of Severn Suite was played on Radio 3 (probably only one movt.!) and it started a discussion about whether Henry Geehl was responsible for the score - he had claimed Elgar had provided him with a piano four hands short score, and he, Geehl had written the brass orchestration, and this is the version we all know.

My friend said that they discovered a version of the brass version in Elgar's hand which is now at the birthplace museum at Broadheath. My question is, has any one seen it, and if so, what key is it written in?

I ask this as most versions are played in B flat.....with one interesting exception!!

[oliver sudden]

There seems to be a newish critical edition of said Suite which uses the manuscript as a source… Wikipedia has the following:

Although it is likely that Elgar originally expected only to supply a "short score" to be orchestrated by a brass band expert, in fact Elgar ultimately performed all the orchestration himself. Henry Geehl, a brass band composer and employee of R.Smith, later claimed to have orchestrated the piece, giving a highly circumstantial account of his involvement to several newspapers. However, in 1995 the original manuscript, entirely in Elgar's hand, resurfaced at auction — its emergence demonstrates that Geehl's longstanding claim to have orchestrated the work was in fact fraudulent. The manuscript was subsequently acquired by the Elgar Birthplace Museum, where it now resides.

[hmvman]

See my post above at #156, I think eBay have a couple for sale.

thanks.