BaL 4.05.24 - Ravel: Piano concerto for the left hand

[Barbirollians]

beroff which was coupled with Argerich’s later G major has gone missing … I gave Fleisher/Ozawa,Zimerman,Wang and Ousset. Will dig them out my recollection is that I liked Zimerman most but rate all four highly.

[silvestrione]

Yes it would be considered cheating. More importantly it wouldn’t create the musical effect Ravel was after. For example the thumb usually plays the melody in the left hand producing a different effect to than the right hand little finger would.
,

It would be intriguing to put that to a 'blind listening test' - and indeed the whole piece. I imagine you'd sense the greater effortful quality of the left-hand version? The stretch and strain? But would you....

[vinteuil]

Among others I have the 1982 Leon Fleisher with the Baltimore Symphony under Sergiu Commissiona
.

and
Zimerman/Boulez
Entremont/Boulez
François/Cluytens
Haas/Munch
Chevallier/van Immerseel
Thiollier/Wit
Kocsis/Fischer
Ciccolini/Martinon
Beroff/Abbado
Blancard/Ansermet
Cortot/Munch

tempted by the Tiberghien/Roth, and v much looking forward to hearing what Jeremy Sams has to say
.

[oliver sudden]

Playing it with both hands would be a bit like getting a second player to play a normal everyday concerto, no? Much easier and maybe you wouldn’t hear the difference but it would be a) cheating and b) a bit silly.

[Ein Heldenleben]

It would be intriguing to put that to a 'blind listening test' - and indeed the whole piece. I imagine you'd sense the greater effortful quality of the left-hand version? The stretch and strain? But would you....

If it’s one of the greats playing you probably wouldn’t notice much difference because they can do anything . To be honest playing it with two hands is no walk in the park by the sound of it . Rather like the Chopin Godowsky Left hand Etudes there are a lot of notes flying around. The whole point of the piece is the intellectual and musical challenge of making it sound like a two handed piece so most advanced pianists would think what’s the point of cheating (or “arranging” as it’s politely known). There are quite a few 19th century pieces where even virtuosi distribute the notes to make things easier (even leave ones out)*. Of course with one hand there’s no way to distribute…

I don’t know the score well enough to know how difficult it is. I think by reputation it’s less difficult than the G major. I think it’s an absolute masterpiece.
*unless you are a Horowitz and put more in to make it more difficult,

[Barbirollians]

One of my favourite pianists on record! He more or less owns this piece for me.

There’s a new edition of the piece which removes a bar from the last page. (One of the ‘March’ bars.) Not such a fan of that to be honest. I would have thought Ravel would have had ample opportunity to remove it himself if he didn’t want it there…

Are they in the Cluytens box ?

[oliver sudden]

Are they in the Cluytens box ?

As far as I’m aware only Tiberghien/Roth has the new edition. But I am unaware of a great many things.

Or did you mean: are the Ravel concertos played by François in the Cluytens box? I admit I’m not sure. I have them in so many other boxes already…

[oliver sudden]

I don’t know the score well enough to know how difficult it is. I think by reputation it’s less difficult than the G major. I think it’s an absolute masterpiece.
*unless you are a Horowitz and put more in to make it more difficult,

I had the impression it was harder than the G major, which Ravel originally wanted to perform himself. Certainly there are some awfully large stretches, although spreading large chords is a perfectly normal thing under such circumstances. (François comes up with much more inventive solutions though.)

For me it’s an unfathomably wonderful piece although it took me a while to reach that opinion. Of course ‘unfathomably’ is my clumsy allusion to the fact that the piano writing spends so much time colliding with the bottom of the instrument—there can’t be many other pieces with such a high proportion of low As. It keeps trying to haul itself into the treble, not least in all those glissandos, one of which covers the entire keyboard. But it keeps collapsing into the depths again. (I wonder if he was thinking of Sisyphus…) That’s one of the reasons using two hands is just completely inadmissible, the piece is so much ‘about’ facing off against the impossible.

(Leon Fleisher confessed that he did also use his right hand in performing the piece. Not on the keyboard but just to hold on to the piano in the enormous glissandos!)

[silvestrione]

Playing it with both hands would be a bit like getting a second player to play a normal everyday concerto, no? Much easier and maybe you wouldn’t hear the difference but it would be a) cheating and b) a bit silly.

No no that would be to introduce many more factors, equal ability? consistent tone touch? same interpretation? etc

[Pulcinella]

Just remembered another version (on different shelves):

François-Joël Thiollier, Piano. Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra. Antoni Wit, Conductor.

It's included in this version of the study score, at £15.50:

https://www.prestomusic.com/sheet-music/products/7319678--ravel-piano-concerto-for-the-left-hand-in-d-major

whereas the edition WITHOUT the Naxos CD is £30.99!

https://www.prestomusic.com/sheet-music/products/7257114--ravel-piano-concerto-for-the-left-hand-d-major

[Belgrove]

… tempted by the Tiberghien/Roth, and v much looking forward to hearing what Jeremy Sams has to say
.

Big fan of this, it being the version I have listened at the expense of all others since its release.

It’s a strange and uncharacteristically gritty work for Ravel. But nevertheless it beguiles, as does all Ravel.

[gurnemanz]

Just remembered another version (on different shelves):

François-Joël Thiollier, Piano. Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra. Antoni Wit, Conductor.

You nudged me to listen again to this attractive performance. I acquired it via the very alluring French Piano Concertos cornucopia from Brilliant. Very good value download from Presto. https://www.prestomusic.com/classica...iano-concertos

[richardfinegold]

I listened to a near contemporaneous work yesterday, Honegger Concertino for Piano and Orchestra, and the two works have a lot in common. Spiky rhythms, Marche themes, some harmonic similarities.

[cloughie]

Yes, I think there's debate about just how good a pianist Wittgenstein actually was…

I was pleased to see Samson Francois still regarded; I used to have it on a Classics for Pleasure LP. . I think my own favourites remain Julius Katchen (one of his last recordings, with Istvan Kertesz and the LSO) and Monique Haas on DG.

Wittgenstein seemed to think that his commissions were too difficult to play! Mind you I think with the Ravel it must be hard resisting the temptation any two-handed pianist to play the odd note with the RH.

The Francois is a favourite of mine too, conucted by the excellent Andre Clytens and the wonderful fully French sounding PCO!

I also like the Katchen!

[smittims]

I was listening to the PCO today in Rachmaninov. Oh, those very french french horns and bassoons!