BaL 13.04.24 - Brahms: Symphony 3

[Ein Heldenleben]

What a wonderful symphony: my father's favourite. My last live performance was Rattle and the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra which was silken but lacked grit and nobility.
Nigel Simeone was our learned Judge and he captured the spirit of Brahms' music well and characterised the virtues of the better interpretations with clarity and accuracy. Andrew gave Nigel his head whilst dealing with the necessary mundanities.
It was like a Grand National with so many falling at the first fence- the work's opening bars. I agree with other commentators who appreciate the importance of repeating the exposition of the first movement.

A splendid BaL.

Agreed - and Abbado much lauded on these pages did not get a look-in

[RobP]

A brief summary of an excellent BAL

1st movt
Weingartner
Walter CSO I loved this
Boult LSO
Chailly Leipzig - early recommendation
Klemperer
Guilini “doesn’t take flight” Nigel S
Jochum LPO wonderful

2nd movt
Blomstedt Leipzig (v good w’wind)
Jacob Hruša Bamberg
Walter CSO - lovely strings imv (and Andrew’s) - “moving” (NS)

3rd movt
Mackerras SCO fluidity- chamber orchestra size
Klemperer Philharmonia - beautifully done

Also mentioned only Kempe
Szell ,Karajan , Manze , Zinman

Finalists for 4th movt

Boult LSO - deep rooted performance tradition

Jochum LPO WINNER
on the basis of the clips I’m not surprised.

Chailly Leipzig GWH Orchestra “boundless vitality “

The Jochum is excellent, but the first movement lacks tension and drive. The last movement is more incisive, but the pity about the soggy timpani.

[silvestrione]

Agreed - and Abbado much lauded on these pages did get a look-in

Did you miss out the 'not' there? I've just listened and didn't hear him mentioned! I tried it again last week, and decided it lost tension at key moments...

[RobP]

I agree wholeheartedly. I listened again to Weingartner, and was struck by how fast he is, getting through the whole symphony in just under half an hour. Yet it never sounds rushed, just well-proportioned. Walter's first recording, with the Vienna Philharmonic in 1936, is also swift at 29'41 according to my Koch Legacy CD; but again,there is no sense of haste. Of course the repeat is omitted as was common on 78s.

I was amused to read that Sir Arnold Bax, of all people, had a theory that this symphony represented the Four Seasons, as he explained to Peter Latham , who related the idea in his sleeve note ot the Klemperer recording, 33CX 1536, its first appearance. Incidentally, fans of Dennnis Brain can hear him in this recording, his only one of this symphony, I think.

He's on the live Toscanini (Pristine)

[Ein Heldenleben]

Did you miss out the 'not' there? I've just listened and didn't hear him mentioned! I tried it again last week, and decided it lost tension at key moments...

Thanks - yes I missed the not - now re-edited.

[Alison]

The Jochum is excellent, but the first movement lacks tension and drive. The last movement is more incisive, but the pity about the soggy timpani.

My dad’s Jochum set was my introduction to Brahms symphonies as a kid, the weak timpani virtually the only criticism.
Things got much better when Russell Jordan took over. Compare the opening of Tennstedts studio Brahms 1 with his later live versions.
Even so I wouldn’t hear this as a deal breaker for Nigel’s BaL winner.

[Barbirollians]

The winner like the rest of the set is a recording of which I am very fond as I am of the other two in the final three . I just came away thinking the Columbia SO /Walter remains the finest performance and recording I have ever heard and if you have heard an exposition so wonderful who needs it repeated !

[makropulos]

The winner like the rest of the set is a recording of which I am very fond as I am of the other two in the final three . I just came away thinking the Columbia SO /Walter remains the finest performance and recording I have ever heard and if you have heard an exposition so wonderful who needs it repeated !

It's absolutely marvellous – I think/hope I called it miraculous, or words to that effect. So I certainly wouldn't disagree!

[kernelbogey]

A splendid BaL.

[Barbirollians]

It's absolutely marvellous – I think/hope I called it miraculous, or words to that effect. So I certainly wouldn't disagree!

It came over very clearly how highly you thought of it.

[richardfinegold]

Who was picked?

[vinteuil]

Who was picked?

Jochum LPO 1976

.

[Retune]

My thanks to makropulos for another excellent job!

For once I already had the top pick, and I wish I could say I'd arrived at it through a process of long and careful consideration, but actually it came in the EMI/Warner Jochum 'Icon' box I'd bought for his Dresden Bruckner cycle (#6 was a previous BaL choice). The only other Brahms set I have is also Jochum, his earlier mono cycle with the BPO, that came in one of the DG Originals big boxes - should be interesting to compare them now. I've enjoyed Jochum's style since first hearing his classic recording of the Beethoven Violin Concerto with Schneiderhan and the BPO.

[oliver sudden]

Not so keen on Norrington myself, preferring the JEG, as he uses natural horns, which is what Brahms wrote for in the score. Norrington's "logic" was that they didn't use natural horns in Brahms's time, which I think is rather a weak argument. Brahms himself learnt to play on a natural horn, and clearly knew what he was doing, when indicating which crooks to use and when to change them.

I think it’s interesting that even Anneke Scott doesn’t seem to have a problem with performance of the symphonies on valve horns, although she obviously much enjoyed the opportunity actually to play the things on natural horns at last.

https://www.historicbrass.org/edocman/hbj-2011/HBSJ_2011_JL01_007_Scott.pdf

It’s an interesting performance practice question: do you give the composer what you think they wanted or what they actually had? Obviously it’s a bit different from playing Bach on a Steinway though, since Bach could never have heard a Steinway and Brahms most definitely heard natural horns. For me it does also depend a bit on the piece. From memory the Alto Rhapsody is really a bit dubious from the point of view of natural brass, and the second piano concerto also a little bit since various movements end with stopped notes for one horn or another.

[Barbirollians]

I had Norrington’s Brahms 1 liked the textures but not the interpretation.