BaL 6.04.24 - Vaughan Williams: A Sea Symphony

[silvestrione]

Well - we’re all different. For me, only the 5th is better.

It's good to hear of folk's enthusiasm for something I've never got on with. With me, it's 5th, 3rd, 7th and 8th, and versions of all the others went to Oxfam long ago. Now I will try this one again, and hope to really get into it!

[Alain Maréchal]

"Then came Previn's RCA recording, on a single LP. Though it was compared unfavourably with the Boult EMI by the Gramophone reviewer, my impression was that it was the finest to date, and I still hold that view. The soloists' balance is exemplary and it's a fine interpretation."

The reviewer was comparing the sound on LP. RCA LPs were often somewhat constricted in sound, surprisingly, since I assume it was Decca engineering and pressing. I have the EMI Boult on three sides, and also two: the difference in favour of the three sided pressing is startling.

[french frank]

Not, for me, an ideal way of listening, but the LPO/Haitink with Lott, Summers, on YouTube (with score)

plus the words of Walt Whitman on Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Sea_Symphony

At least gives one the tools needed to persevere (needed by me).

[Barbirollians]

How did I forget Previn ? I have to get round to listening to that set - I have always loved his Fifth.

[smittims]

I was sorry to see that anyone thinks it too long or boring. I've always been thrilled with every minute of it every time I hear it. For me it's one of the most uplifting pieces of music ever written. But I have disliked many pieces of music by other composers which everyone else seems to love, so I can at least understand the man who said when the chorus sings 'Behold the Sea Itself!' he wanted to shout 'No! You behold it!'

[Serial_Apologist]

Not, for me, an ideal way of listening, but the LPO/Haitink with Lott, Summers, on YouTube (with score)

plus the words of Walt Whitman on Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Sea_Symphony

At least gives one the tools needed to persevere (needed by me).

Wow! Thanks indeed, ff. One answer to my "prayers" (above)!

[Serial_Apologist]

I was sorry to see that anyone thinks it too long or boring. I've always been thrilled with every minute of it every time I hear it. For me it's one of the most uplifting pieces of music ever written. But I have disliked many pieces of music by other composers which everyone else seems to love, so I can at least understand the man who said when the chorus sings 'Behold the Sea Itself!' he wanted to shout 'No! You behold it!'

I feel exactly the same. I'm not at all sure why some people (including many who profess to love other VW works) don't get on with the Sea Symphony. It's little more than an hour long in many versions, and while the language of Whitman's words may seem florid they are very much of their time. The whole message of the work revolves around the unifying nature of the sea, from all the different nations and peoples using it for shipping or whatever to how it enswaddles everything and all beings. It remains a powerful environmentist message. With future knowledge he could have included how the sea's movements drive the world's weather systems, provide nutrition, and could also have made mention of human degradation by pollution. At the time there was criticism of various conventional formal imbalances as a total entity, as well as of stylistic or idiomatic inconsistency - the work was begun sometime around 1905, after all, and VW had not yet totally digested its Elgar and Parry influences; but for me this adds fascination in how the composer somehow succeeded through sheer force of spirit (if you'll pardon the cliché) to integrate the later Debussy influences readily apparent in the third movement, which even includes one or two quotes from "Sirènes" and "La Mer". The final measures might be seen as weighing up a whole life span using the sea as an all-encompassing metaphor or substitute for Elgar's anthropomorphic deity - and VW admired "Gerontius" - which was in itself pretty remarkable for a composer of less than 40 years of age.
.

[Barbirollians]

It makes me feel a bit seasick - certainly when trying to read that You Tube score at the same time. I had to turn it off .

I don't feel the same way about La Mer or Scheherazade ! Or Bridge's The Sea or Britten's Four Sea Interludes.

[HighlandDougie]

While I certainly cannot see it being the BaL choice, Gennady Rozhdestvensky's recording - with Russian soloists (a bit wobbly at times) and chorus(es) - is well worth a listen. The recording acoustics are a bit swimming-pool like (the Grand Hall of the Leningrad Philharmonic Society) but GR enters into the fray with a refreshing gusto. If Smittims hasn't heard this version, I commend it to him as an interesting alternative to the usual suspects. I think that RVW would have enjoyed it.

[LMcD]

I was sorry to see that anyone thinks it too long or boring. I've always been thrilled with every minute of it every time I hear it. For me it's one of the most uplifting pieces of music ever written. But I have disliked many pieces of music by other composers which everyone else seems to love, so I can at least understand the man who said when the chorus sings 'Behold the Sea Itself!' he wanted to shout 'No! You behold it!'

I think there's just too much going on for my poor ageing brain to cope with. My favourites are nos. 2, 3, 5 and 6.
When it comes to musical portrayals of the sea, Britten's Sea Interludes used to be top of my list until I discovered Frank Bridge's suite.
I also regularly listen to Grace Williams's Sea Sketches.

[Serial_Apologist]

I think there's just too much going on for my poor ageing brain to cope with. My favourites are nos. 2, 3, 5 and 6.
When it comes to musical portrayals of the sea, Britten's Sea Interludes used to be top of my list until I discovered Frank Bridge's suite.
I also regularly listen to Grace Williams's Sea Sketches.

The last time I heard the Bridge work broadcast the announcer confidently stated how well it exemplified the influence of Debussy's La Mer; however listening to it I can hear no Debussy influence whatsoever; there is plenty of Wagner in the stormy parts, Grieg (and possibly Delius) in the calm passages. Grace Williams's Sea Sketches I'm coming round to since hearing them the other night, possibly on TTN, having on first hearing found them too derivative. They may be derivative - Sea Sketches is a comparatively early work of Ms Williams - but, as in the case of the Sea Symphony, the derivations along with how they are blended are of interest in themselves, possibly indicating a changed viewpoint on such things on my part of late.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

"Then came Previn's RCA recording, on a single LP. Though it was compared unfavourably with the Boult EMI by the Gramophone reviewer, my impression was that it was the finest to date, and I still hold that view. The soloists' balance is exemplary and it's a fine interpretation."

The reviewer was comparing the sound on LP. RCA LPs were often somewhat constricted in sound, surprisingly, since I assume it was Decca engineering and pressing. I have the EMI Boult on three sides, and also two: the difference in favour of the three sided pressing is startling.

I thought the two-sided Previn had superior sound to the three-sided Boult, but both were good.

[smittims]

Indeed, Dougie ,that whole Russian set of the symphonies is fascinating. Of course one doesnt get the familar fluency the LPO bring to these works, but hearing the players get to grips with what must have been strange stuff to them is wonderful.

[Barbirollians]

I don't think Grace Williams' Sea Sketches are derivative at all - OK there might be as AW pointed out in Gramophone echoes of the Frank Bridge Variations but I find the work very enjoyable - about time there was a new recording - isn't the only extant one from 1975 with David Atherton and the ECO - though there is a good performance on YT with the BBCNOW/O.A.Hughes

[Master Jacques]

The last time I heard the Bridge work broadcast the announcer confidently stated how well it exemplified the influence of Debussy's La Mer; however listening to it I can hear no Debussy influence whatsoever; there is plenty of Wagner in the stormy parts, Grieg (and possibly Delius) in the calm passages. Grace Williams's Sea Sketches I'm coming round to since hearing them the other night, possibly on TTN, having on first hearing found them too derivative. They may be derivative - Sea Sketches is a comparatively early work of Ms Williams - but, as in the case of the Sea Symphony, the derivations along with how they are blended are of interest in themselves, possibly indicating a changed viewpoint on such things on my part of late.

Announcers and reviewers are prone to over-confident (and thoroughly nonsensical) statements of "influence". Like you, I hear no Debussy in Frank Bridge's The Sea at all, beyond the coincidence of title.

As for the Sea Symphony itself, I remember one Gramophone reviewer who blithely cited its "obvious debt" to Daphnis and Chloe. I hope somebody pointed out to that gentleman that the Vaughan Williams symphony was written between 1903 and 1909: much of it predates his "French polish sessions" with Ravel, and the work was first performed two years before the Ravel ballet!