BaL 16.03.24 - Handel: Concerti grossi Op 6

[Pulcinella]

10.30 am
Building a Library

Joseph McHardy chooses his favourite recording of George Frideric Handel's Concerti Grossi, Op. 6.

As an added extra to tempt London audiences to his 1739–1740 season of masques and oratorios, Handel wrote 'Twelve Grand Concertos' to be performed during the intervals. The concertos, full of memorable melodies, harmonic and rhythmic surprises, make a feature of the interplay between the main orchestral group and smaller groups of soloists. A handful of the concertos are wholly original but in most Handel recycles bits and bobs from his and others' older music, and two are reworkings of his organ concertos. Their movements encompass many different forms including diverse dances, intricate fugues, airs, and themes and variations – all of which delighted, and continue to delight Handel's audiences.

Available versions (complete set)

AAM/Manze (D)
AAM Berlin/Forck (CD)
Alexander Schneider’s CO/Schneider (D)
Arte dei Suonatori/Gester (SACD, D)
Aradia/Mallon (CD, D)
ASMF/Brown (PCD, D)
ASMF/Marriner (D)
Australian Brandenburg O/Dyer (D)
Avison Ensemble/Beznosiuk (D)
Bamberger Symphoniker/Lehmann (D)
Berlin PO/Karajan (D)
Combattimento Consort Amsterdam/de Vriend (D)
English Concert/Pinnock (D)
Giardino Armonico//Antonini (D)
Grande Ecurie/Malgoire (D)
Handel and Haydn Society/Hogwood (CD, D)
I Musici (D)
I Musici di Montreal/Turovsky (CD, D)
Munich Bach O/Richter (D)
Musiciens du Louvre/Minkowski (D)
Orpheus CO (D)

There is also a set in the 65CD Brilliant Classics Handel set, but I could not find out who was playing.

(PS. Thanks to Dave Payn: The performers on the Brilliant Classics set are Neues Bachisches Collegium Musicum Leipzig, Max Pommer conductor, recorded 1983, Paul-Gerhardt-Kirche, Leipzig. (From MusicWeb International review))

D: Download
CD: CD (possibly in set)
PCD: Presto CD
SACD: SACD

Thread launched without Alpie's approval, so I hope he won't mind. Maybe he's still struggling with Schubert S9.

Best laid plans and all that.....
I thought I'd list by Ensemble rather than conductor, but what do you do with articles? Just Musici looked odd!

There aren't that many, so I hope the list is easy enough to navigate, and that the abbreviations used are comprehensible.
As ever, corrections/additions etc willingly accepted.

[Pulcinella]

Hogwood and Pinnock here; I have more versions of the Op 3 set (ASMF/Marriner and Linde Consort as well).
Alison will not be surprised to read that there is no BBC MM competition; indeed, only one of the set has featured so far: No 1, in a 1984 Proms performance by ASMF/Brown.

[gurnemanz]

Hogwood and Pinnock here;

Here also. I got the Hogwood via a Double Decca a while ago and recently acquired Pinnock via a daftly cheap Handel: Complete Orchestral Recordings download from Presto

[smittims]

I wonder if they will make two recommendations: HIPP and non-HIPP. These works can take a surprising variety of interpretations. Even within the HIPP arena there's quite a contrast between, say, Hogwood and Il Giardino Armonico, both former Oiseau-Lyre recordings.

I still go back to the earliest complete set, Boyd Neel's 1936/39 Decca gold-label 78s with Arnold Goldsborough. There are things in it that have never been bettered, for instance the breath-taking Allegro fifth movement of the fifth concerto.

I wish Otto Klemperer had agreed to record the set when asked in the early '60s. When he declined they asked Yehudi Menuhin, who made a fine set, the first, I think, to include Handel's optional oboe parts.

[MickyD]

One HIPP set that is missing here and probably the most controversial of all is that of Harnoncourt and his VCM. Richard Barrett once said to me that having heard it, he decided that Harnoncourt didn't like Handel!

[Pulcinella]

One HIPP set that is missing here and probably the most controversial of all is that of Harnoncourt and his VCM. Richard Barrett once said to me that having heard it, he decided that Harnoncourt didn't like Handel!

Not listed on the Presto site, Micky, but a copy available cheaply here should anyone wish to investigate. It may well be streamable too.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Concerti-Grossi-Harnoncourt-George-Frideric/dp/B000000SO9/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1VMUPQUW32XCL&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.bws_wdbJlw2RKn58tug2NGD7EWzfZq7MXs8kY60CDe4oDjwqQ1nhCwnVYYV3YLFsG4ZpKzSNg9RJLot3JjpF01sPpQQmpMsYVWA6yEGz9lfYh3XTvPxuxvdrHAeOEXwB6VDFRMmcgwM7PDN7A82z-IMRZpR3bgghJ51CNqvoLRcmb8JikWVsvwiFZ8i18roIiSlJJX-crT43y8HmRKssMPbM4twImKSF3PzRTBJjTBQ.N0UPNEvH0Q7vLXx1ctmo6VUqVq73gwoRRVUT-99dEKg&dib_tag=se&keywords=Harnoncourt+handel&qid=1709915621&s=music&sprefix=harnoncourt+handel%2Cpopular%2C62&sr=1-3

[Sir Velo]

I wonder if they will make two recommendations: HIPP and non-HIPP. These works can take a surprising variety of interpretations. Even within the HIPP arena there's quite a contrast between, say, Hogwood and Il Giardino Armonico, both former Oiseau-Lyre recordings.

.

Joseph McHardy doesn't have a lot of form on BAL but on his only previous appearance (St Matthew Passion, 2022) he elected for two HIPP recordings with one non HIPP as an alternative. Expect therefore a HIPP recommendation in this repertoire.

There is also the added curveball of the optional parts for oboe and bassoon, which some may feel risks overegging the pudding.

[MickyD]

Not listed on the Presto site, Micky, but a copy available cheaply here should anyone wish to investigate. It may well be streamable too.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Concerti-Grossi-Harnoncourt-George-Frideric/dp/B000000SO9/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1VMUPQUW32XCL&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.bws _wdbJlw2RKn58tug2NGD7EWzfZq7MXs8kY60CDe4oDjwqQ1nhC wnVYYV3YLFsG4ZpKzSNg9RJLot3JjpF01sPpQQmpMsYVWA6yEG z9lfYh3XTvPxuxvdrHAeOEXwB6VDFRMmcgwM7PDN7A82z-IMRZpR3bgghJ51CNqvoLRcmb8JikWVsvwiFZ8i18roIiSlJJX-crT43y8HmRKssMPbM4twImKSF3PzRTBJjTBQ.N0UPNEvH0Q7vL Xx1ctmo6VUqVq73gwoRRVUT-99dEKg&dib_tag=se&keywords=Harnoncourt+handel&qid= 1709915621&s=music&sprefix=harnoncourt+handel%2Cpo pular%2C62&sr=1-3

I got them in this set, which includes Op.3. Some copies to be had here:


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Concerti-Grossi-Harnoncourt-George-Frideric/dp/B000000SO9/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?crid=2TN63X2HJHEY&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9. bws_wdbJlw2RKn58tug2NMEcVsctK4yt1r1-of5g3bMJtbTNjFQUWN1HPSFV4sYmxL_BApNpQURSke3oRG5C86 _s7mrMVo2-kJtUq2bA_F2DNInrpWlpQ12v_enCX9N8sJTVKpsYxhKmiYC2ZQ cAipcWqsQHGafFayB-59sWxLGchxHlphCjmtUFRgPm_3swabWL45-EkrW8YnHD01eCGw.kyyYk2yJHDsN80s88owJyd7d24Q89pE6My T6eY_W_Ow&dib_tag=se&keywords=handel+Harnoncourt&q id=1709921101&sprefix=handel+harnoncourt+%2Caps%2C 118&sr=8-6

[Pulcinella]

I got them in this set, which includes Op.3. Some copies to be had here:


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Concerti-Grossi-Harnoncourt-George-Frideric/dp/B000000SO9/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?crid=2TN63X2HJHEY&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9. bws_wdbJlw2RKn58tug2NMEcVsctK4yt1r1-of5g3bMJtbTNjFQUWN1HPSFV4sYmxL_BApNpQURSke3oRG5C86 _s7mrMVo2-kJtUq2bA_F2DNInrpWlpQ12v_enCX9N8sJTVKpsYxhKmiYC2ZQ cAipcWqsQHGafFayB-59sWxLGchxHlphCjmtUFRgPm_3swabWL45-EkrW8YnHD01eCGw.kyyYk2yJHDsN80s88owJyd7d24Q89pE6My T6eY_W_Ow&dib_tag=se&keywords=handel+Harnoncourt&q id=1709921101&sprefix=handel+harnoncourt+%2Caps%2C 118&sr=8-6

That seems to take you to the same place.
Heaven knows why the link is so long: we usually get a little thumbnail!

[HighlandDougie]

AAM/Manze - simply a joy

[Barbirollians]

Pinnock

[smittims]

Harnoncourt is on YouTube, though I found it difficult to select individiual movements. I've yet to find it on Spotify, though they do have the Antonini (which I have to say is much more 'wacky' than Harnoncourt!) and , for those who like that sort of thing, our old friends Herbert von Karajan and the Berlin Philharmonic.

I heard Herbert doing some of them live on a Uk visit in the '60s (1967?), and he even played harpsichord in one. Harnoncourt uses organ continuo (nicely played ) and the oboes and bassoon. I did not think his interpretation in any way un-Handelian.

Two older recordings which I don't expect to be featured :

A Westminster set with Herman Scherchen conducting 'The English Baroque Orchestra' (presumably a pseudonym) and the Bamberg S.O and Fritz Lehmann. I like both though some of Scherchen's tempi are very odd indeed. Well worth investigating. Scherchen is on YouTube, Lehmann on Spotify.

[Pulcinella]

Joseph McHardy doesn't have a lot of form on BAL but on his only previous appearance (St Matthew Passion, 2022) he elected for two HIPP recordings with one non HIPP as an alternative. Expect therefore a HIPP recommendation in this repertoire.

There is also the added curveball of the optional parts for oboe and bassoon, which some may feel risks overegging the pudding.

I have the Lea Pocket Scores (bought in Boston on 7 June 1978: two volumes $1.35 each!), which are the Urtext Edition (Chrysander), dated 1955.
There may well have been more scholarship since, but in the Preface Chrysander says:

Händel (sic) planned to add oboe accompaniments to the present 12 concertos, as he had done for the very similar concerti grossi [Op 3], and he did in fact enter in his score parts for two oboes; but he carried these only to the second movement of the sixth concerto and must soon have convinced himself that these parts, filling out the tutti, were superfluous or at least not necessary, since they were not printed nor ever put to actual use, as far as can be ascertained.
Leipzig, 20 December 1869

[smittims]

Hans Redlich's edition for the New Edition included the oboe and bassoon parts for four of the concertos. Harnoncourt seems to have included oboes and bassoon in all the concertos (I've heard 1 to 6 so far). The only ciritcisms I could make are that the solo violins are oddly balanced at the back, like the 'second orchestra' in Vaughan Williams' Fantasia. I can't think why Harnoncourt allowed this. Also, surprisingly for him, some of the articulation of the faster passages is not clear, e.g. in the Polonaise of the third concerto. So unless you're a die-hard Harnoncourt fan I wouldn't recomend this .

[MickyD]

That seems to take you to the same place.
Heaven knows why the link is so long: we usually get a little thumbnail!

Oops, I do beg your pardon - I glossed over the fact that you already gave the Amazon link, hence my repeating it!

I wouldn't want Harnoncourt to be my library choice, but I have never been able to resist hearing what he does, however infuriating it may be!