BaL 4.07.15 - Rodgers: Carousel

[doversoul1]

I agree wholeheartedly that Carousel is one of the very best musicals, and I imagine there have been many excellent productions and performances. Despite this, or rather, because of this, I object to this BaL.

There are now so few programmes on Radio 3 that treat classical music seriously. BaL is one of these few precious programmes, and there is so much music that can be introduced to Radio3 listeners. Also, a CD of a musical is like a Baroque opera without recitative or The Fairy Queen without spoken parts. Does the CD of a musical hold serious interest as a coherent work to those who have not seen it?

Well known musicals do not need BaL (it can be nice but hardly essential) whereas so much classical music does.

gradus #29
Rinaldo or Parsifal are great operas but they wouldn’t be considered as great musicals. It isn’t the greatness of the work in its own field but the kind of music that is the question here.

[gradus]

Well I agree that Carousel, Parsifal and Rinaldo are dissimilar but G and S and Fledermaus are popular and I'd argue akin to musicals and their popularity hasn't excluded them from BAL. I can see the other point of view but I guess its personal choice at root.

[french frank]

I suppose the way I would think of this is that BaL has a very dedicated, devoted regular audience (as has CD Review itself) as being one of the undisputed serious classical programmes.

Is the purpose of choosing Carousel to try to get a 'broader audience' listening to the programme regularly (in spite of the fact that it won't appeal to many of the regular programme audience)?

In which case they will end up 'achieving' what Radio 3 has 'achieved'. They lose one audience in order to gain another; but the one they gain will be the one that likes music like Carousel on BaL, rather than Nielsen 3, Bruckner 7 or Britten's Illuminations. Or Sound of Cinema rather than The Early Music Show.

If they try switching between the two types of music, they risk losing listeners from both audiences.

Perhaps?

[doversoul1]

My argument is that Carousel is far from a borderline case (you could say G&S’s works are). It is the epitome of popular art, which is clearly out of Radio3’s remit. I don’t expect Radio2 plays Monteverdi although it may occasionally includes a song from Mikado. Why can't R3 do the same?

Moreover, is the choice genuinely based on its musical merit?

[Stanfordian]

My argument is that Carousel is far from a borderline case (you could say G&S’s works are). It is the epitome of popular art, which is clearly out of Radio3’s remit. I don’t expect Radio2 plays Monteverdi although it may occasionally includes a song from Mikado. Why can't R3 do the same?

Moreover, is the choice genuinely based on its musical merit?

Hiya doversoul,

I could not agree with you more. As someone said traditional classical music listeners are being pushed further into a corner. I love Carousel but as I said in an earlier post if you programme Carousel in BAL why not the Sound of Music or maybe the musicals Mamma Mia!, The Rocky Horror Picture Show or The Who's Tommy; there seems little difference to me.

[Stanley Stewart]

I really don't think that this is an issue of gaining or losing audiences. BAL is featured weekly throughout the year, except for the Christmas annual review. I'm a regular listener but others may decide to pick and choose. I'm glad that music theatre is now under consideration along with, say, G & S or the wide field of operetta. I'd be happy if South Pacific, West Side Story or the Sondheim repertory got an occasional outing during the next few years. Let's exercise a degree of flexibility. I have a low toleration for Hear and Now, or 'World Music' programming and seek a world elsewhere when they are scheduled as I assume they are of interest to other listeners. Glad to live in an age of so many options.

[doversoul1]

I really don't think that this is an issue of gaining or losing audiences. BAL is featured weekly throughout the year, except for the Christmas annual review. I'm a regular listener but others may decide to pick and choose. I'm glad that music theatre is now under consideration along with, say, G & S or the wide field of operetta. I'd be happy if South Pacific, West Side Story or the Sondheim repertory got an occasional outing during the next few years. Let's exercise a degree of flexibility. I have a low toleration for Hear and Now, or 'World Music' programming and seek a world elsewhere when they are scheduled as I assume they are of interest to other listeners. Glad to live in an age of so many options.

… and then Jersey Boys, We Will Rock You, and Jesus Christ Superstar? And not just on BaL but throughout R3?

Once you start, where do you stop?

I am sorry, Stanley. I wish I could be as nice as you are but I’m not. This isn’t the matter of listeners’ (our) attitude. It is the matter of Radio 3’s obligations.

[french frank]

I really don't think that this is an issue of gaining or losing audiences. BAL is featured weekly throughout the year, except for the Christmas annual review. I'm a regular listener but others may decide to pick and choose. I'm glad that music theatre is now under consideration along with, say, G & S or the wide field of operetta. I'd be happy if South Pacific, West Side Story or the Sondheim repertory got an occasional outing during the next few years. Let's exercise a degree of flexibility. I have a low toleration for Hear and Now, or 'World Music' programming and seek a world elsewhere when they are scheduled as I assume they are of interest to other listeners. Glad to live in an age of so many options.

The answer to that would be that Hear and Now, World on 3 and, say, the jazz programmes know their audience. If you shun them it's because they don't interest you - punkt. But that's not the same with BaL. Trying to please too many audiences ends up pleasing no one. And I do think it's an issue of catering to specific tastes in specific areas of the schedule.

[Stanley Stewart]

I'm convinced that BAL must continue to widen its field or get stale. Knowledgeable presenters like Edward Seckerson know the parameters and can shrewdly separate the wheat from the chaff.

[Richard Tarleton]

The answer to that would be that Hear and Now, World on 3 and, say, the jazz programmes know their audience. If you shun them it's because they don't interest you - punkt. But that's not the same with BaL. Trying to please too many audiences ends up pleasing no one. And I do think it's an issue of catering to specific tastes in specific areas of the schedule.

Exactly! As we've discussed before

Actually Andrew said something interesting, and wrong, in a throwaway remark at the end of BAL today - talking about Carousel next week, he said, words to the effect of, "Can we include this [them? Can't be bothered to listen again] in Classical Voices? Of course we can!"

I googled "Music theatre voices and opera voices" and found this - you have to subscribe to see the whole thing but interesting as far as it goes. I was taken to more musicals than I care to remember as a defenceless youngster, many at Drury Lane, and they were not sung by classical voices - they were sung by singing actors (who were very good at what they did), the sort of people you find on the original film or stage soundtracks. I cite The King and I, My Fair Lady, Oklahoma, Oliver, Pickwick, Camelot (actually Lawrence Harvey's singing in that was terrible - as was Richard Harris's in the film ), and several more. Actually Harry Secombe could sing very nicely, in a crossover sort of way.

[seabright]

That was excellent! Thanks for posting. :)

Glad you liked Julian Ovenden who, I see, has lately been popping up as Michael Kitchen's son in several TV re-runs of "Foyle's War" from some years ago. Anyway, from that same 'Rodgers & Hammerstein' John Wilson Orchestra concert (their annual Proms are always total sell-outs) he's equally superb in "If I Loved You," alongside Sierra Boggess ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mSEb7Bl0hU

[mercia]

Dame Kiri's daily spot in Breakfast has included a few non-classical. I suppose the "Classical Voices" season has actually been celebrating 'the voice' in all its variety [in the way that The Choir does regularly]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02t03d1/episodes/downloads

[pastoralguy]

Exactly! As we've discussed before

Actually Andrew said something interesting, and wrong, .

Not possible.

[pastoralguy]

Exactly!

I googled "Music theatre voices and opera voices" and found this - you have to subscribe to see the whole thing but interesting as far as it goes. I was taken to more musicals than I care to remember as a defenceless youngster, many at Drury Lane.

Oh, poor you. How my heart bleeds. My father dragged me, kicking and screaming, to hear Menuhin, Oistrakh, the Berlin Philharmonic under Karajan and some guy called, oh yes, Barenboim. It was simply terrible.

[Sir Velo]

You want to hear a great record? Try Ella Fitzgerald sings The Rodgers & Hart Songbook.

Would I want to hear it on CD Review? Assuredly not.