BaL 4.07.15 - Rodgers: Carousel

[Richard Tarleton]

Oh, poor you. How my heart bleeds. My father dragged me, kicking and screaming, to hear Menuhin, Oistrakh, the Berlin Philharmonic under Karajan and some guy called, oh yes, Barenboim. It was simply terrible.

Eh? Don't follow you at all, pg.

[Parry1912]

"...and next, as part of our 'Classical Voices' season, the soundtrack to Mamma Mia"

[Flosshilde]

But that's not the same with BaL. Trying to please too many audiences ends up pleasing no one. And I do think it's an issue of catering to specific tastes in specific areas of the schedule.

If you try & please (too) many audiences you will definitely please some people some of the time (of course, there's always the people who refuse to be pleased whatever you do). Even if you restricted BaL to classical music (whatever that is) there is still the certainty that some people (possibly quite a lot of people) won't be pleased by the work being considered. People who don't like opera, or baroque (especially HIPP), or piano music, or Wagner, or Mozart, or etc etc.

[pastoralguy]

I was very sarcastic, Richard. To be taken to hear the very greatest of musical theatre artists at Drury Lane is an experience that many would give their right arm for! Again, being sarcastic, the fact that my father took me to hear the greatest artists as a teenager was an experience that made me into the music lover I am today.

[Richard Tarleton]

Ah

I am sure I enjoyed it at the time (I was being a bit sarcastic meself) but all changed for me when a different relative took me to, La Boheme at Sadlers Wells.....lightbulb moment

[french frank]

Glad you liked Julian Ovenden who, I see, has lately been popping up

I tried it - but but couldn't listen through to the end. No criticism of the performer, performance, music &c (I would judge them to be very good), but like so much of musical theatre it passes through my taste sensors as sickly/saccharine sentimentality and I can't bear it. I truly regret any offence caused but I cannot …

That's differing tastes for you.

[pastoralguy]

Ah

I am sure I enjoyed it at the time (I was being a bit sarcastic meself) but all changed for me when a different relative took me to, La Boheme at Sadlers Wells.....lightbulb moment

I've been lucky enough to have been involved in three productions of 'Carousel' and have loved every moment of it. As opposed to being put off my playing by members of the audience snoozing through certain operas by Wa... Well, you know who I mean!

[doversoul1]

If you try & please (too) many audiences you will definitely please some people some of the time (of course, there's always the people who refuse to be pleased whatever you do). Even if you restricted BaL to classical music (whatever that is) there is still the certainty that some people (possibly quite a lot of people) won't be pleased by the work being considered. People who don't like opera, or baroque (especially HIPP), or piano music, or Wagner, or Mozart, or etc etc.

But will they think (seriously) it should not be on BaL? I don’t think they will, and isn’t this the difference?

Radio 3’s obligation is to the listeners who want to hear classical music, jazz, and world music. Popular music is not its business irrespective of the musical quality of the work in question. As I said before, Radio 2 and 6 Music don’t try to interest regular Radio3 listeners*, so why Radio3 trying to please their listeners**?

Also, I expect many R2 and 6 Music listeners like classical music as well as the stations’ specialist repertoire but (I guess)neither of them tries to please these listeners by playing classical music. So why is Radio3 doing the reverse?

*with classcal music
[ed.]** with their speciality

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Eh? Don't follow you at all, pg.

Irony, surely'

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

As I said before, Radio 2 and 6 Music don’t try to interest regular Radio3 listeners*, so why Radio3 trying to please their listeners**?

It reminds me of one of the seedier aspects of attending an independent boarding school. There was always an "in-crowd" to whom the majority would like to be seen with. Needless to say, the reverse never happened. Those with a love of classical music were often marginalised and mocked, so they kept a low profile. I was extremely lucky in that one of the most popular members of that in-crowd was also a violinist/pianist/singer who had been taken to Halle concerts from quite an early age.
Now I count my blessings.

[french frank]

Even if you restricted BaL to classical music (whatever that is)

It's become a cliché to attach the phrase 'whatever that is' (or similar) where Western classical music is concerned. It's an (if I may) intellectually lazy cop-out since:

a) clearly there is no watertight definition according to which music is assigned either to one category - classical music - OR, on the other side of the 'barrier' - not-classical music.

nevertheless:

b) there is clearly some music which is indisputably classical music (Haydn's string quartets) and some which isn't (jazz standards)

c) out of interest: what aspect of Broadway musical theatre would fit ANY definition of classical music?

d) once all categories are swept away and music becomes just 'music', experience suggests that anything that would certainly be defined as classical music gets very short measure indeed. Think BBC 'Music Day' coordinated by the BBC 'Director of Music'.

In the Hadrian's Wall of Sound sequence (on the One Show), I managed to get a screen shot of a wind quintet by pausing the iPlayer. There was no sound (just a voiceover) and the image lasted for under 10 seconds. Otherwise what was there apart from Radio 3's usual programming (minus the evening concert)?



e) isn't this why people become very protective of the increasingly small space devoted to 'classical music (whatever that is)'?

[mikealdren]

[QUOTE=It is the epitome of popular art, which is clearly out of Radio3’s remit. [/QUOTE]

Given how few recordings there are in the list, is it really popular any more?

Mike

[Flosshilde]

b) there is clearly some music which is indisputably classical music (Haydn's string quartets) and some which isn't (jazz standards)

Out of interest, how do you define 'classical'? Under one definition, based on period and style, Haydn's music is classical but Handel's isn't.

[clive heath]

Incidentally the Musical Director for the 1992 "Carousel" was Justin Brown who is now General Music Director of the Badisches Staatstheater Karlsruhe, Germany, and Music Director Laureate of the Alabama Symphony Orchestra in the United States, 6 seasons there. He recently released a Mahler 9 with the Badishers which was not that well received but he seems to be strong on new music.

http://justinbrownconductor.com/biography/

Talking about classical singers and musicals there are those clips on you-tube of Lenny getting exasperated with José Carreras in "Maria"... " I wrote it!" whereas Sarah Vaughan in a kind of stylistically reverse shoe-in with "South Pacific" does OK on "Happy Talk" with the non-jazz orchestra.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCREo9pVAE

[doversoul1]

Carousel and Kiri te Kanawa: Guess the target audience (with no disrespect whatsoever to any of them)*.

If Radio3 were serious about interesting young (-er) people in classical music, and serious about musical being a suitable subject of BaL, they could have chosen something like Billy Elliot and discussed the difference and the similarities between classical music and non-classical music. Whilst I don’t fall into either (young/new) category, I’d have been more than happy to listen to it and my musical horizon would have been considerably widened.

What is the thinking behind it or is there any thinning at all? I am still hoping that Alan Davey had nothing to do with all this..

*I expect someone will tell me how many young people were in the audience of its recent performance. Ah well. I know I have preconceived ideas and all that.

[ed.] ** with the focus on…