BaL 13.01.24 - Bach: Orchestral Suites 1-4

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  • Eine Alpensinfonie
    Host
    • Nov 2010
    • 20578

    BaL 13.01.24 - Bach: Orchestral Suites 1-4

    10.30 am
    In Building a Library Nicholas Kenyon chooses his favourite recording of Bach’s 4 Orchestral Suites.

    We know remarkably little about when these orchestral suites were originally written or why. They probably weren’t written or compiled as a coherent set. But they are full of Bach’s most joyful and festive music, especially the Third and Fourth Suites with their brilliant trumpet parts. Each suite starts with a French overture followed by various dance movements and other well known pieces like the Air (often known as the “Air on the G String”), the virtuosic Badinerie (“playfulness”) and the Réjouissance (“rejoicing”) that ends the Fourth Suite.

    Available versions:-

    Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin
    Concerto Italiano, Rinaldo Alessandrini
    Concertgebouworkest, Eduard van Beinum
    Musica Amphion, Pieter-Jan Belder
    Zefiro, Alfredo Bernardini
    Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, Frans Brüggen *
    Busch Quartet
    Dunedin Consort, John Butt
    Café Zimmermann *
    Marlboro Festival Orchestra, Pablo Casals *
    Consort of London, Robert Clark *
    Il Fondamento, Paul Dombrecht
    Capella Istropolitana, Jaroslav Dvorak
    Academy of Ancient Music, Richard Egarr
    I Barocchisti, Diego Fasolis (SACD)
    Ensemble Masques, Olivier Fortin
    Freiburger Barockorchester *
    English Baroque Soloists, Sir John Eliot Gardiner
    Reykjavik Chamber Orchestra, Reinhard Goebel
    Musica Antiqua Köln, Reinhard Goebel
    Brandenburg Consort, Roy Goodman *
    Virtuosi Saxoniae, Ludwig Güttler *
    Concentus musicus Wien, Nikolaus Harnoncourt
    Academy of Ancient Music, Christopher Hogwood *
    Mainzer Kammerorchester, Gunter Kehr
    New Philharmonia Orchestra, Otto Klemperer
    Philharmonia Orchestra, Otto Klemperer
    Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra, Ton Koopman *
    La Petite Bande, Sigiswald Kuijken
    Collegium Aureum, Franzjosef Maier *
    Academy of St Martin in the Fields, Neville Marriner
    Academy of St Martin in the Fields, Neville Marriner *
    Bath Festival Orchestra, Yehudi Menuhin*
    Concerto Copenhagen, Lars Ulrik Mortensen
    Kölner Kammerorchester, Helmut Müller-Brühl
    Stuttgarter Kammerorchester, Karl Münchinger
    Boston Early Music Festival Orchestra, Andrew Parrott *
    Boston Baroque, Martin Pearlman
    English Concert, Trevor Pinnock
    London Festival Orchestra, Ross Pople *
    Münchener Bach-Orchester, Karl Richter
    Oregon Bach Festival Chamber Orchestra, Helmuth Rilling
    Le Concert des Nations, Jordi Savall (SACD)
    Kammerorchester Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach, Peter Schreier *
    Eleonor Bindman, Susan Sobolewski
    Moscow Virtuosi, Vladimir Spivakov
    Bach Collegium Japan, Masaaki Suzuki (SACD)
    Camerata Academica Salzburg, Sándor Végh


    (* = download only)
    Last edited by Eine Alpensinfonie; 13-01-24, 11:27.
  • Serial_Apologist
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 37995

    #2
    This, along with the Goldberg Variations, is the Bach I go for in my woeful ignorance of the works Bach enthusiasts and scholars cite as far greater - the cantatas and so on that can sometimes seem churned out. But the trumpets have to sound out above the ensemble to achieve the vital uplifting sense of joy, which one sometimes does not find in recordings more recent than the Marriners, which I used to have but they got half-inched at some point.

    Comment

    • Darloboy
      Full Member
      • Jun 2019
      • 340

      #3
      As with the previous week's Creation, the Suites are covered pretty much every 10 years by BaL.

      Previous recommendations:

      Lionel Salter (Jan 1979): ASMF/Marriner on Argo with ASMF/Marriner on Philips as runner-up and Ars Rediviva/Munclinger as mid-price choice
      Richard Osborne (November 1984): I don't know what he recommended
      Graham Sadler (October 1994): Musica Antiqua Köln/Goebel + Consort of London/Haydon Clark as modern performance choice
      Andrew Manze (April 04): Musica Antiqua Köln/Goebel
      Mark Lowther (December 14): Freiburger Barockorkester + other mentions to Goebel (one per part) + Marriner on Decca (modern instruments) + Busch (historic)

      Comment

      • smittims
        Full Member
        • Aug 2022
        • 4587

        #4
        I suppose it's simpler if we say 'his favourite' raher than 'the most recommendable' which, with today's choices, would surely be virtually impossible.

        Changing taste and fashion have affected the fortunes of recordings of these works. When Klemperer's 1954 Columbia recordings appeared they were warmly welcomed as 'replacements' forthe Busch set, yet when his stereo set appeared only 16 years later the Gramophone said 'I never want to hear the Bach suites played like this again'. Yet one still sees the Busch set valued and praised. I don't envy anyone trying to recommend even one version for each style of performance. Apart from Klemperer, I find Dart/Marriner wears well.

        Does anyone still like Koussevitzky? I think he was the first to use a solo violin in the allegro of the 3rd suite overture.

        Comment

        • richardfinegold
          Full Member
          • Sep 2012
          • 7823

          #5
          I still listen to Ristenpart, nla

          Comment

          • Sir Velo
            Full Member
            • Oct 2012
            • 3282

            #6
            Currently enjoying Concerto Italiano/Alessandrini. They seem to be the most harmonious blend of HIPP and innate musicality.

            Comment

            • Pulcinella
              Host
              • Feb 2014
              • 11239

              #7
              No direct competition from BBC MM in this case.

              ASMF/Marriner (recorded in 1970; 1991 Decca Serenata incarnation) on the shelves here.

              Comment

              • Eine Alpensinfonie
                Host
                • Nov 2010
                • 20578

                #8
                Creeping ignorance is affecting Radio 3, in that the webpage refers indirectly to the Air from the 3rd Suite as “Air on the G String”, which is what they call it on Classic FM, who probably don’t know any better.

                Air on the G String is a 19th century arrangement of the Bach movement, transposed down a major 9th for solo violin.

                Comment

                • oddoneout
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2015
                  • 9415

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                  Creeping ignorance is affecting Radio 3, in that the webpage refers indirectly to the Air from the 3rd Suite as “Air on the G String”, which is what they call it on Classic FM, who probably don’t know any better.

                  Air on the G String is a 19th century arrangement of the Bach movement, transposed down a major 9th for solo violin.
                  The viola part in that movement has some glorious moments, as I discovered a long time ago on a summer music course, when the lower strings were tutored by Harry Danks, principal viola of BBCSO
                  Mention of the Badinerie prompts me to ask if anyone can help with a very long-held memory I have of it accompanying a public information animation, directed at children, about not dropping litter. I have found out that it was used as the opening theme for Picture Book, a very early Children's BBC programme, but that was before we had a TV so it couldn't be that I am remembering - or misremembering as might well be the case.

                  Comment

                  • cloughie
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 22239

                    #10
                    I remember the Argo Marriner set breezing in like a breath of fresh air after the dark dull predecessors - I’ve not moved on from these having not heard any convincing successors since.

                    Comment

                    • gurnemanz
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 7445

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Darloboy View Post
                      As with the previous week's Creation, the Suites are covered pretty much every 10 years by BaL.

                      Previous recommendations:

                      Lionel Salter (Jan 1979): ASMF/Marriner on Argo with ASMF/Marriner on Philips as runner-up and Ars Rediviva/Munclinger as mid-price choice
                      Richard Osborne (November 1984): I don't know what he recommended
                      Graham Sadler (October 1994): Musica Antiqua Köln/Goebel + Consort of London/Haydon Clark as modern performance choice
                      Andrew Manze (April 04): Musica Antiqua Köln/Goebel
                      Mark Lowther (December 14): Freiburger Barockorkester + other mentions to Goebel (one per part) + Marriner on Decca (modern instruments) + Busch (historic)
                      Just flicked through our comments on the last BaL in 2014. Several members favoured Café Zimmermann and it didn't seem clear quite why they were dismissed.

                      Comment

                      • Retune
                        Full Member
                        • Feb 2022
                        • 332

                        #12
                        Originally posted by gurnemanz View Post

                        Just flicked through our comments on the last BaL in 2014. Several members favoured Café Zimmermann and it didn't seem clear quite why they were dismissed.
                        Just over 9 years? Seems a bit soon, even for core repertoire. How many contenders have been released since then? I see that the Dunedin Consort recording came out in 2022, which should be worth listening to, and Gramophone liked Concerto Copenhagen the year before that. Does anyone have a recent favourite?

                        Comment

                        • Sir Velo
                          Full Member
                          • Oct 2012
                          • 3282

                          #13
                          See my recent post extolling the virtues of the Concerto Italiano recording (released in 19).

                          Comment

                          • richardfinegold
                            Full Member
                            • Sep 2012
                            • 7823

                            #14
                            I had mentioned Ristenpart earlier, but he sounds anachronistic compared to my two digital versions, Suzuki and Hogwood. Suzuki in particular has extremely quick tempos that never sound rushed and the playing and recording are both superb

                            Comment

                            • Eine Alpensinfonie
                              Host
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 20578

                              #15
                              Quite an interesting BaL, though the number of recordings discussed was extremely limited.

                              Comment

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