BaL 9.12.23 - Bruckner: Symphony no. 8

[Nick Armstrong]

You'll just have to grit your teeth… Tom wasn't very good at articulating his argument - in essence, that Bruckner interpretation isn't just a matter of maximising orchestral beauty and monumental climaxes but that his music has the power to disturb/perturb…. Occasional inarticulateness aside, well worth a listen, I would say.

Well I gave it a go but I can’t take the delivery - the gabbling, the stuttering, the exhalations. It’s just bad broadcasting I think. Plus I didn’t learn anything more than I’d picked up here e.g. from your summary of his approach.

Still, glad that Klaus T and the LPO were in the spotlight at the end.

[Nimrod]

Pretty good. It ranks, in my experience, with a young Nigel Kennedy standing in at short notice in Elgar's violin concerto at the RFH in 1980 or '81, and a certain Mr. Thomas Allen standing in at eve shorter notice as Don Giovanni one wonderful night.

This discussion has reminded me that the first time I heard Bruckner 8 it was Barbirolli conducting, in the Free Trade Hall c.1971.

Not wishing to sound too pedantic Smittens, but if you heard JB conduct Brucker 8th in 1971 you must have spent 72 minutes in heaven, he died on 29th July 1970! I suspect you and I were in the audience at the FTH in May 1970 to hear the 8th preceeded by a superb interpretation of Elgar's In The South.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Not wishing to sound too pedantic Smittens, but if you heard JB conduct Brucker 8th in 1971 you must have spent 72 minutes in heaven, he died on 29th July 1970! I suspect you and I were in the audience at the FTH in May 1970 to hear the 8th preceeded by a superb interpretation of Elgar's In The South.

If he heard Barborolli conduct Bruckner 8 live Smittims was in heaven surely ?

[Barbirollians]

Not wishing to sound too pedantic Smittens, but if you heard JB conduct Brucker 8th in 1971 you must have spent 72 minutes in heaven, he died on 29th July 1970! I suspect you and I were in the audience at the FTH in May 1970 to hear the 8th preceeded by a superb interpretation of Elgar's In The South.

Lucky you. Was it even more amazing live than on the BBC Legends disc. Is that the In the south that also appeared on BBC Legends ? and to my ears is the only real challenger to Silvestri .

[vibratoforever]

Not wishing to sound too pedantic Smittens, but if you heard JB conduct Brucker 8th in 1971 you must have spent 72 minutes in heaven, he died on 29th July 1970! I suspect you and I were in the audience at the FTH in May 1970 to hear the 8th preceeded by a superb interpretation of Elgar's In The South.

I heard Barbirolli conduct that programme on May 1 1970 in Sheffield. Another, earlier, performance issued by the Barbirolli Society is very different, taking over 10 minutes longer.

Listening to Saturday's Building A Library I lasted 20 minutes, the double helping of word salad from presenter and reviewer was for me indigestible.

[akiralx]

Haitink's 1969 recording is my favourite for the same reason, except he gets through the finale in 20'47 !! Astonishing to think that old Bernie was once a speed merchant....

I recall Richard Osborne in his Gramophone review praised the full BH cycle - but added that you'd need another version of the Eighth owing to the speedy tempi...

I've only heard this work live once: in Melbourne, the Australian World Orchestra under Sir Simon Rattle - which is actually available on a 2CD set (from the Sydney concert), whose advertising rubric includes 'critics hail[ed] the event as “pure musical Viagra” and “a sublime rendition of the infinite in sound.” '

I might concur with the latter (it was superbly done) but perhaps not the former.

[smittims]

Thanks, Nimrod, you're right of course. I well recall the performance of In the South (the first time he conducted it I'm told). I'm often a year out when remembering.

[Nimrod]

Lucky you. Was it even more amazing live than on the BBC Legends disc. Is that the In the south that also appeared on BBC Legends ? and to my ears is the only real challenger to Silvestri .

It was the second time I'd heard JB conduct this work, the first being 25th January 1968 when I drove up from Birmingham to hear it live for the very first time. There wasn't a dog's chance of the CBSO doing such a work with an orchestra of that size (unless it was Mahler) in those days. I learnt the work from HJK and the Berlin Phil on Columbia, borrowed from the local library. JB conducted the Funeral march from Grania and Diarmid as a warm up (Elgar's), I can still recall the swish on the tam-tam, but of course the work was new to me.
Having heard the Bruckner live in Manchester, I needed no encouragement to book a ticket for the next time, April 30th 1970 and this time we had In the South as a 'prelude' and yes, the whole concert was glorious. The BBC Legends Elgar and Bruckner were recorded in the RFH on May 20th 1970 and I was easily persuaded by a Manchester friend to train it to London for that perfromance! My first time in the RFH and we sat in the choir stalls behind the trombones. Of the few times I saw JB, it was Brucker's 8th that I saw most often, followed by Elgar's 1st (twice). Lucky me!

[silvestrione]

I recall Richard Osborne in his Gramophone review praised the full BH cycle - but added that you'd need another version of the Eighth owing to the speedy tempi...

I've only heard this work live once: in Melbourne, the Australian World Orchestra under Sir Simon Rattle - which is actually available on a 2CD set (from the Sydney concert), whose advertising rubric includes 'critics hail[ed] the event as “pure musical Viagra” and “a sublime rendition of the infinite in sound.” '

I might concur with the latter (it was superbly done) but perhaps not the former.

Available in an excellent video on Youtube!

[silvestrione]

I do like Tom Service, his enthusiasm, his knowledge, his fresh thinking, even though I don't always agree, and don't like his habit (it is now) of dismissing large swathes of established performances through some formula or other (too 'pious' an approach, was it, with the Mozart d minor?), though this time he was a little cautiously modest, in saying at one point, who was he to hold forth against all these experienced conductors (I paraphrase). Whereas in Bruckner 6, he just dismissed all performances, virtually, except half a Furtwangler, for lacking that wildness, or similar.

I'm not sure I want wildness, and certainly not Mahleresque angst. I've listened once to Tennstedt, but have to confess to not getting on with his performances generally. Rattle with the Australian World Orchestra are just wonderful. Mystery, richness, and abundance! Space and stillness...unhurriedness. I don't want any striving towards a resolving conclusion, not what Bruckner is about, as I see it. Nor is it just a matter of beauty (e.g. in Karajan and Giulini) : but I cannot put it into words, which may be the whole point...

[Goon525]

Just listened to BRSO/Haitink, recommended above, may date back to the early 90s but wow, what a performance (and recording). Perhaps not wild enough for Tom Service, but can anyone compete with Haitink’s ability to pace a performance and transmit an understanding of where you are and where you’re heading? I do intend to listen to Tennstedt in the next few days - I was an admirer of his - to see if I can cope with the wildness!

[Alison]

I think it was from 2011, Goon; rather special isn’t it?

[HighlandDougie]

I think it was from 2011, Goon; rather special isn’t it?

It is indeed gather special but the symphony recording dates from December 1993. But it sounds magnificent.

[Goon525]

As he died in 1998, probably not from 2011!

[HighlandDougie]

As he died in 1998, probably not from 2011!

We seem to be getting our Klauses and Bernies mixed up. Tennstedt died in January 1998 but Haitink managed to keep going until 21 October 2021 - a black day indeed.