BaL 9.12.23 - Bruckner: Symphony no. 8

[Gargoyle]

Hi, AuntDaisy, you might care to listen to some 'oddball' Bruckner 8s which , while unlikely to be today's recommended versions, have something to say about this extraordinary work:

Karajan 1957, his Columbia recording , and one of the first he made with the Berlin Phil. Interstingly, he recorded no Bruckner with the Philharmonia. This vintage early stereo EMI set has always been welcomed back whenever it's been reissued.

Klemperer, his notorious late recording of the Novak version, in which he chose to make further cuts of his own. Despite this, there's a craggy awkwardness about it which is, well, Brucknerian.

And speaking of craggy awkwardness there's Reggie Goodall on BBC legends, the second of only two performances he gave . This is the Haas version gloriously complete.

I had no idea this BaL was coming and quite by coincidence I've been listening to all the recordings I have, about 20 or so. I have found that my time honoured pecking order has changed somewhat. It was always HvK VPO, Wand BPO, Giulini VPO DG & BPO Testamant, with a special place in my heart for Celibidache and the 1957 HvK.

But on recent listens I was surprised to be enjoying Bohm's VPO Novak DG studio enormously. Such excellent balancing of the movements and effortless building of the musical and emotional tension. I was also very surprised with the sound quality of the Galleria CD, much better than I remembered. By comparison, I found my beloved HvK VPO hesitant in the first movement and not as naturally flowing as the Bohm.

Back to your post, I found the 1957 HvK to be a bit of a snooze-fest. I was listening to the most up to date remastered version from the big box, but it just did not take off for me. Strange, because I have always loved this performance.

But I agree about Goodall's ''Haas version gloriously complete''. It really is a performance of stature and power, and the live sound is amazing, especially the timpani. I had not listened to this CD for about 5 years and I don't remember the performance or sound quality as being as good it is, maybe my better sound equipment is the reason? Goodall is so in command of the music's overall structure, whilst phrasing each bar so convincingly. It is about 30 seconds longer than another broad performance, my no. 1 choice, Gunter Wand BPO on RCA.

I'm not sure why I seem to have gone off of HvK and Giulini, while remaining constant with Gunter Wand.

EDIT - I tried to make the picture smaller but was defeated. Can anyone explain how to resize pictures? Thanks.

[AuntDaisy]

I had no idea this BaL was coming and quite by coincidence I've been listening to all the recordings I have, about 20 or so. I have found that my time honoured pecking order has changed somewhat. It was always HvK VPO, Wand BPO, Giulini VPO DG & BPO Testamant, with a special place in my heart for Celibidache and the 1957 HvK.

But on recent listens I was surprised to be enjoying Bohm's VPO Novak DG studio enormously. Such excellent balancing of the movements and effortless building of the musical and emotional tension. I was also very surprised with the sound quality of the Galleria CD, much better than I remembered. By comparison, I found my beloved HvK VPO hesitant in the first movement and not as naturally flowing as the Bohm.

Back to your post, I found the 1957 HvK to be a bit of a snooze-fest. I was listening to the most up to date remastered version from the big box, but it just did not take off for me. Strange, because I have always loved this performance.

But I agree about Goodall's ''Haas version gloriously complete''. It really is a performance of stature and power, and the live sound is amazing, especially the timpani. I had not listened to this CD for about 5 years and I don't remember the performance or sound quality as being as good it is, maybe my better sound equipment is the reason? Goodall is so in command of the music's overall structure, whilst phrasing each bar so convincingly. It is about 30 seconds longer than another broad performance, my no. 1 choice, Gunter Wand BPO on RCA.

I'm not sure why I seem to have gone off of HvK and Giulini, while remaining constant with Gunter Wand.

EDIT - I tried to make the picture smaller but was defeated. Can anyone explain how to resize pictures? Thanks.

Thanks Gargoyle - that's very helpful.

Re. Resizing images.
You linked to an Amazon image, the 1500 number at the end of the URL is the size, if you change it to, say, 300, it gives a smaller image.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71Kp5QUDo9L._AC_SL300_.jpg

[Gargoyle]

Thanks Gargoyle - that's very helpful.

Re. Resizing images.
You linked to an Amazon image, the 1500 number at the end of the URL is the size, if you change it to, say, 300, it gives a smaller image.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71Kp5QUDo9L._AC_SL300_.jpg

You're welcome Aunt D, and thank you for explaining how to resize - I'll try that next time

[LMcD]

I appreciate that Bruckner 8 is regarded as one of the towering creations of Western Culture but I must be the only person who dozed off during live performances by Abbado and the Vienna Phil and Gunter Wand and the Northwest Radio Symphony Orchestra!

I’ve played it twice and it made absolutely no impression on me whatsoever.

I just don’t get it!

I don't really get it either, but can vividly remember the first time I ever heard it, in 1967 in the library of my university hall of residence, - a recording by the Vienne Pro Musica Symphony Orchestra conducted by Jascha Horenstein. I also saw Reginald Goodall conduct it at the Proms on the 3rd of September 1969, and spent most of my time wondering whether he'd make it to the end. I don't think I've heard it since. The other work at the RAH that night was Mozart's Clarinet Quintet, which did much more for me in less than one-third the time.

[mikealdren]

I don't really get it either, but can vividly remember the first time I ever heard it, in 1967 in the library of my university hall of residence, - a recording by the Vienne Pro Musica Symphony Orchestra conducted by Jascha Horenstein. I also saw Reginald Goodall conduct it at the Proms on the 3rd of September 1969, and spent most of my time wondering whether he'd make it to the end. I don't think I've heard it since. The other work at the RAH that night was Mozart's Clarinet Quintet, which did much more for me in less than one-third the time.

The Vienna Symphony under Horenstein in Bruckner 9 (Vox) made a huge impression shortly afterwards.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Ooh lovely … starting with the VPO and Karajan and for once he’s not dismissed.

[Goon525]

That final 8th is one of the greatest things Karajan did. But might not be the library choice.

[Ein Heldenleben]

That final 8th is one of the greatest things Karajan did. But might not be the library choice.

Yes wonderful - though I suspect Tennstedt is the favoured one - maybe Guilini . I think Tom is doing a very good job of illustrating the various approaches to this complex work so one can think yes I’d like to hear more of that. There are so many wonderful performances . Extraordinary that the standout for me so far is Furtwangler. And that beautifully shaded Jarvi scherzo As a side note the VPO string section should be given World Heritage status.

[Barbirollians]

Barbirolli is much more exciting than Jarvi if you like a brisk Scherzo. I have not enjoyed the Tennstedt extracts it’s not Mahler 9

[Ein Heldenleben]

Barbirolli is much more exciting than Jarvi if you like a brisk Scherzo. I have not enjoyed the Tennstedt extracts it’s not Mahler 9

Well Tennstedt is the favoured son it seems. The one that’s reverberating around my brain is Furtwangler. He was a sorcerer wasn’t he ?

[RobP]

I appreciate that Bruckner 8 is regarded as one of the towering creations of Western Culture but I must be the only person who dozed off during live performances by Abbado and the Vienna Phil and Gunter Wand and the Northwest Radio Symphony Orchestra!

I’ve played it twice and it made absolutely no impression on me whatsoever.

I just don’t get it!

Absolutely. Barbirolli is the one to go for. He gets it over and done with in 74 minutes and whisks through the hopelessly episodic, meandering finale in 22.07, which almost stops it falling apart.

If you haven't done so already try his choral music, its far more interesting, especially the Te Deum and F minor Mass.

[Goon525]

An interesting and different approach taken by Tom Service, the requirement for wildness eliminating many fine versions. (Karajan got two excerpts in the first movement, both well received, then never mentioned again.) I was at the Tennstedt RFH performance, loved him as a conductor, but a bit surprised that a live RFH performance by a London orchestra could win out over so many beautiful Vienna performances. As for Furtwangler, it did sound thrilling, but I have good reason to be uncomfortable with the whole idea of listening to 1944 VPO, and frankly in any case need better sound, more dynamic range. I know not everyone will agree.

[underthecountertenor]

If you haven't done so already try his choral music, its far more interesting, especially the Te Deum and F minor Mass.

…and the motets. Try the recent St Albans Cathedral choir recording, which picked up a Gramophone Critics’ Choice gong this month.

[Barbirollians]

Absolutely. Barbirolli is the one to go for. He gets it over and done with in 74 minutes and whisks through the hopelessly episodic, meandering finale in 22.07, which almost stops it falling apart.

If you haven't done so already try his choral music, it’s far more interesting, especially the Te Deum and F minor Mass.

Tom Service was somewhat disingenuous about the Jarvi - the other movements are pretty slow. I thought the Celi extract was torture.

[Barbirollians]

An interesting and different approach taken by Tom Service, the requirement for wildness eliminating many fine versions. (Karajan got two excerpts in the first movement, both well received, then never mentioned again.) I was at the Tennstedt RFH performance, loved him as a conductor, but a bit surprised that a live RFH performance by a London orchestra could win out over so many beautiful Vienna performances. As for Furtwangler, it did sound thrilling, but I have good reason to be uncomfortable with the whole idea of listening to 1944 VPO, and frankly in any case need better sound, more dynamic range. I know not everyone will agree.

wasn’t the winner his EMI studio recording ?