BaL 25.11.23 - Ravel: Le tombeau de Couperin

[Beresford]

Did anyone else like the quickly dismissed piano roll version, played by Ravel, or maybe his friend Robert Casedesus? I agree that it sounded like an old recording, and only one movement, but it seemed to be a more subtle interpretation than most of the more athletic performances.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Did anyone else like the quickly dismissed piano roll version, played by Ravel, or maybe his friend Robert Casedesus? I agree that it sounded like an old recording, and only one movement, but it seemed to be a more subtle interpretation than most of the more athletic performances.

Yes I liked it . It sounded too technically secure to be the much (perhaps unfairly ) maligned keyboard tyro Ravel. To yours and Master Jacques point , despite the inferior roll medium , it sounded poised and refreshingly unmetronomic.

[Master Jacques]

Yes I liked it . It sounded too technically secure to be the much (perhaps unfairly ) maligned keyboard tyro Ravel. To yours and Master Jacques point , despite the inferior roll medium , it sounded poised and refreshingly unmetronomic.

Quite so - "refreshing" is the mot juste, a palate-cleanser in the midst of all that infallible anonymity. It does seem this reviewer was on a different plane(t) from many Forumites, at least on the issue of how to approach Ravel's pianistic world in this work.

[HighlandDougie]

Not sure I would call Grosvenors account ‘brash’. But then I might not describe Perianes as ‘natty’.

In scrolling through downloads I have stored on my Aurender Network Server (mostly thanks to the great kindness of a fellow forumista), I came across this year's Sunday Morning Prom from the RAH with Benjamin Grosvenor playing, inter alia, 'Le Tombeau de Couperin'. "Brash"? Not to my ears. His interpretation has matured more than a little since he recorded it. I'm biased in his favour, of course and maybe it's the RAH acoustic which gives it a little extra warmth but I struggle to think of it being better (and not at all brashly) played. Not sure if it's still available on the BBC but well worth a listen should it resurface.

[silvestrione]

In scrolling through downloads I have stored on my Aurender Network Server (mostly thanks to the great kindness of a fellow forumista), I came across this year's Sunday Morning Prom from the RAH with Benjamin Grosvenor playing, inter alia, 'Le Tombeau de Couperin'. "Brash"? Not to my ears. His interpretation has matured more than a little since he recorded it. I'm biased in his favour, of course and maybe it's the RAH acoustic which gives it a little extra warmth but I struggle to think of it being better (and not at all brashly) played. Not sure if it's still available on the BBC but well worth a listen should it resurface.

Can't find it on BBC Sounds, but it does seem to be on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-k6NxU_amY

I'll have a listen later.

[Ein Heldenleben]

In scrolling through downloads I have stored on my Aurender Network Server (mostly thanks to the great kindness of a fellow forumista), I came across this year's Sunday Morning Prom from the RAH with Benjamin Grosvenor playing, inter alia, 'Le Tombeau de Couperin'. "Brash"? Not to my ears. His interpretation has matured more than a little since he recorded it. I'm biased in his favour, of course and maybe it's the RAH acoustic which gives it a little extra warmth but I struggle to think of it being better (and not at all brashly) played. Not sure if it's still available on the BBC but well worth a listen should it resurface.

Thanks for reminding me . I’d forgot he played the Ravel. It was an absolutely outstanding recital . I hope it gets a New Year repeat . The Liszt Norma Reminiscences are so rarely played live . One of the best live solo recitals in recent years.

[Beresford]

The Linos Trio have recently produced a version for piano trio, and, as far as I can tell from clips, it sounds, as you might expect, like something in between the piano and orchestral versions. The CD includes Ravel's piano trio, with original instruments, but don't let that put you off. I haven't yet heard enough to decide if I would recommend it. I hope to hear them live tomorrow in Kendal, doing the genuine trio, so maybe they are touring at the moment.

[silvestrione]

I don't always know how to respond to Ravel. E.g., are these elegiac pieces, or not? Certainly the fugue, as Ben Grosvenor plays it, is. But on the BAL they were talking about it being a 'musical box', winding down, and so on. And the other pieces...are they just dedicated to these friends, rather than elegiac?

[Ein Heldenleben]

I don't always know how to respond to Ravel. E.g., are these elegiac pieces, or not? Certainly the fugue, as Ben Grosvenor plays it, is. But on the BAL they were talking about it being a 'musical box', winding down, and so on. And the other pieces...are they just dedicated to these friends, rather than elegiac?

That is a very interesting question that goes to the heart of the ambiguity of the piece . The grave of Couperin - dead and buried or part of a continuous French musical tradition that Ravel places himself in ? And the parallel homage to his dead friends - dead but also immortal if you believe the standard French war memorial . To convey all that in a performance is perhaps beyond what fingers , mind and heart can achieve. One thing : it doesn’t work sentimentalising it but a cold , dry performance doesn’t work either.

[silvestrione]

That is a very interesting question that goes to the heart of the ambiguity of the piece . The grave of Couperin - dead and buried or part of a continuous French musical tradition that Ravel places himself in ? And the parallel homage to his dead friends - dead but also immortal if you believe the standard French war memorial . To convey all that in a performance is perhaps beyond what fingers , mind and heart can achieve. One thing : it doesn’t work sentimentalising it but a cold , dry performance doesn’t work either.

Yes, thanks, that's helpful.

[Pulcinella]

In his book Ravel — Life and works, Rollo Myers says:

As he [Ravel] explained later, the work was conceived as a tribute, not so much to Couperin himself as to French music of the eighteenth century in general, and each of its six movements was dedicated to a friend who had lost his life in the war.

[french frank]

In his book Ravel — Life and works, Rollo Myers says:

As he [Ravel] explained later, the work was conceived as a tribute, not so much to Couperin himself as to French music of the eighteenth century in general, and each of its six movements was dedicated to a friend who had lost his life in the war.

The 'tombeau' was a common musical genre in the baroque era, composed as a homage to someone: this lists a number of tombeaux from the 17th & 18th cc. So Ravel is simultaneously referencing not only the past age/style of Couperin but also the literal tombs of dead friends.

[silvestrione]

The 'tombeau' was a common musical genre in the baroque era, composed as a homage to someone: this lists a number of tombeaux from the 17th & 18th cc. So Ravel is simultaneously referencing not only the past age/style of Couperin but also the literal tombs of dead friends.

Ah, oui. Aussi, poesie, Stephane Mallarme, 'Le Tombeau d'Edgar Poe', 'Le Tombeau de Charles Baudelaire', etc

[MickyD]

The Linos Trio have recently produced a version for piano trio, and, as far as I can tell from clips, it sounds, as you might expect, like something in between the piano and orchestral versions. The CD includes Ravel's piano trio, with original instruments, but don't let that put you off. I haven't yet heard enough to decide if I would recommend it. I hope to hear them live tomorrow in Kendal, doing the genuine trio, so maybe they are touring at the moment.

An extract was played on Record Review some weeks ago and it sounded very agreeable to my ears. Hope you enjoy the concert, wish I could be there!

[Beresford]

An extract was played on Record Review some weeks ago and it sounded very agreeable to my ears. Hope you enjoy the concert, wish I could be there!

Concert was brilliant. The Piano Trio was serious,impassioned and disciplined. The audience gasped after the second movement. I had not known that Ravel completed it just before he expected to go to the Front Line (but he was refused on health grounds), so he put a lot into it, as he thought it likely he would be killed in the fighting. No period instruments with the Town Hall Steinway. The other pieces were Beethoven's first piano trio - lots of trying out ideas. Also a short movement of a planned trio by the Thai pianist, involving harmonics that were so high they were "not on the piano", so were played by the violin. Quiet intensity.

(Sorry if I have wandered off topic, but the Linos Trio have produced a CD and sheet music version of the Tombeau "stolen" from the piano version.)