BaL 7.10.23 - Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade

[silvestrione]

I did hear a story that Sir John Barbirolli wanted to play Scheherazade with the Hallé when they appeared at an Edinburgh Festival performance but were told it wasn’t a suitable work for an EIF concert! There does seem to be a degree of snobbery attached to this work.

Guilty! I had always assumed that Rimsky's Scheherazade was something, like Top of the Pops, Shelley and bubble gum, that one grew out of.

I loved it in my youth when Silvestri did it in Bournemouth, though.

[Barbirollians]

Ferney once of this parish I recall was not a fan of Scheherazade . I have a particular soft spot for it as it was something my son often asked me to put on the car stereo when he was little and he called it Sinbad . Now he is older it is one of the few pieces of classical music he does not whinge about when I put it on in the car !

It was of course the legendary and now scandalously unavailable even as a download Philharmonia/Kletzki version with Hugh Bean . Much loved as I recall by Edward Greenfield in Gramophone.

I have rather a lot and doubt I shall be getting any more - but all of the following have given much pleasure though some are very different - Haitink from Silvestri for a start - also excellent to my ears are Beecham, Monteux ,Reiner and both of Stoky's late versions. I like the Kondrashin but less than these.

[smittims]

There's a good transfer of the Kletzki on YouTube.

We could have a thread on classical music to play to one's children. My boys loved Ronald Corp's Hyperion discs of 'Mr. Bear Squash-you-all-flat' and the pistol shots in 'Parade' (so different from the ones at the start of Toscanini's Eroica).

[Master Jacques]

I can’t believe no one has mentioned Reiner/CSO

I thought hard about it, but for me Reiner's comparatively fast tempo for the "slow movement" ('The Young Prince and the Young Princess') rules him out of court. He makes it sound too much like a breezy French waltz and not enough of a sensual, Oriental reverie. Others may feel his refusal to linger braces the music unsentimentally, but I don't think it needs that sort of special pleading. The remainder of his reading is quite as good as anyone's, I totally agree.

[richardfinegold]

I thought hard about it, but for me Reiner's comparatively fast tempo for the "slow movement" ('The Young Prince and the Young Princess') rules him out of court. He makes it sound too much like a breezy French waltz and not enough of a sensual, Oriental reverie. Others may feel his refusal to linger braces the music unsentimentally, but I don't think it needs that sort of special pleading. The remainder of his reading is quite as good as anyone's, I totally agree.

I couldn’t disagree more. These are young lovers here, not doddering octogenarians out on date night. One expects a certain passion and animation from them, even during a slow dance. And the playing is simply unbelievable. Above all, Scheherazade is Concerto For Orchestra

[mikealdren]

Scheherazade is one of my very favourite works that I first discovered in my early teens courtesy of CfP. The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra under Kempe is still my touchstone partly due to the gorgeous playing of Alan Loveday. Other favourites include the LSO/Previn with the late, great John Georgiadis’ solo playing. I also love the LSO/Mauceri disc on the Orchestra’s own label that has, for me, the loveliest slow movement with some gorgeous portamenti from the then leader Michael Davis.

The (R)SNO Chandos disc under Jarvi brings back so many memories of hearing Edwin Paling’s lovely rendition of the solo violin part. I was lucky enough to hear him play it on many occasions, not least when the late Carl Davis used chunks of the piece to accompany the silent movie ‘The Thief of Baghdad’. I was sitting about 4 feet away from Mr. Paling when he played the solo part and I’m sorry to report that I was so busy watching him I completely forgot about the movie!

I did hear a story that Sir John Barbirolli wanted to play Scheherazade with the Hallé when they appeared at an Edinburgh Festival performance but were told it wasn’t a suitable work for an EIF concert! There does seem to be a degree of snobbery attached to this work.

Completely agree about the CfP Kempe but I only have it on an old LP.

[smittims]

I've often felt the Kletzki would have been a full-price Columbia Lp . like his earlier EMI recordings, but for the introduction of 'HMV Concert Classics' whose launch required a bright new version of a popular work. It seems always to have had good reviews each time it's been reissued. Can anyone tell us who the producer and balance engineer were, and where it was done?

[gradus]

I couldn’t disagree more. These are young lovers here, not doddering octogenarians out on date night. One expects a certain passion and animation from them, even during a slow dance. And the playing is simply unbelievable. Above all, Scheherazade is Concerto For Orchestra

Richard I wonder if there are two Reiner/CSO performances. I've just listened via Spotify to a performance of the the movement in question from 1960 remastered and issued under the Artemesia label and it would be hard to find a slower initial tempo, almost stopping in places as Reiner lingers lovingly over Rimsky's score, it has some strange balances too with woodwind almost dominating strings rather than supporting the line - to my ears at ;least!
By the way, I hope that you enjoyed Belgium, frites and all.

[gradus]

Don't know who 'degrees' is, apologies to them, it was posted by me.

[gradus]

It seems that 'degrees' is what used to be called gradus but I didn't change it??

[HighlandDougie]

I've often felt the Kletzki would have been a full-price Columbia Lp . like his earlier EMI recordings, but for the introduction of 'HMV Concert Classics' whose launch required a bright new version of a popular work. It seems always to have had good reviews each time it's been reissued. Can anyone tell us who the producer and balance engineer were, and where it was done?

Produced by Victor Olof, engineered by Douglas Larter and recorded in Studio One, Abbey Road, from 12 - 14 April 1960.

[Master Jacques]

Richard I wonder if there are two Reiner/CSO performances. I've just listened via Spotify to a performance of the the movement in question from 1960 remastered and issued under the Artemesia label and it would be hard to find a slower initial tempo, almost stopping in places as Reiner lingers lovingly over Rimsky's score, it has some strange balances too with woodwind almost dominating strings rather than supporting the line - to my ears at ;least!
By the way, I hope that you enjoyed Belgium, frites and all.

Mea culpa. I ought to have checked the Reiner before dashing off my first post, and must apologise to you both for brain slippage.

At least I remembered that Reiner did something horribly extreme with the slow movement - which he does, precisely in the manner you describe, starting slow and almost grinding to a halt. It's syrupy, and vulgar. Whether or not, it's way slower even at the start than Rimsky's marking of "crotchet=52" (andantino quasi allegretto, rather supporting Richard's "youthful lovers", which is certainly a sensible warning against excessive sluggishness) and does not hold together, in my opinion.

I must check through my baker's dozen or so of Scheherazades to discover which of them was the over-fast one, but it certainly isn't Reiner! Unless there are two CSO/Reiner versions, which I doubt.

Mind you, I gib rather at the idea of this groundbreaking, cyclic and obsessive symphony as a "concerto for orchestra". Perhaps Reiner's mindset does reflect the old way of treating the work as a virtuoso showpiece, when it's so much more than that. We're only just catching up with the greatness of Rimsky's achievement here: he's been patronised as a "master orchestrator" (a subtle put-down) for too long.

[smittims]

Thanks, Dougie. With that pedigree, no wonder it's such a classic!

[cloughie]

Produced by Victor Olof, engineered by Douglas Larter and recorded in Studio One, Abbey Road, from 12 - 14 April 1960.

The excellent Kletzki Tchaik 6 appeared at around the same time. Both are still high on my leaderboards!

[Master Jacques]

Hunting through my Schererazades for the fast-slow movement culprit, I listened last night to the LSO/Markevich recording (well remastered on Eloquence) and was very much in the mood for his impressive, symphonic grasp of the whole work. I then moved on to Chalabala and the CPO - another lovely, if decidedly "old school" reading, where the slow movement is on the slow side, but without excessive indulgence. That Supraphon double album (with disc two devoted to Khatchaturian's Gayeneh extended suites) is another one to cherish.