BaL 16.05.15 - Mozart: Horn Concertos

[MrGongGong]

I did not hear this BAL because, apart from personal reasons at this time, the idea of drawing comparisons in performances does not interest me.

As far as I am concerned, anyone who is willing to put their personal readings of those four concertos on record should themselves be respected for their respect for the composer's achievements.

If opinions did not vary, there would be no point in belonging to this or any other forum. Nobody can be judged as "right" and therefore nobody can be stated to be "wrong".

Choice is a personal thing and "...one man's meat ..."

HS

[Nick Armstrong]

I did not hear this BAL because, apart from personal reasons at this time, the idea of drawing comparisons in performances does not interest me.

I did listen to this BaL with interest - having heard a few versions over the years but with a far lower level of experience in these matters, I was fascinated by the juxtapositions of the various extracts. I'd never compared Brain, Civil and Tuckwell, say, and relished being able to do so. Hinterholzer and Pyatt came across as pretty dazzling in terms of their articulation, I thought. Speaking as someone whose clearest recollection of the LP collection at home during my childhood is this cover:



I'm delighted to have a more educated idea about the other options and in particular ones with rather more lively and engaging accompaniment!

[vinteuil]

Nobody can be judged as "right" and therefore nobody can be stated to be "wrong".

... it may be that nobody can be judged as absolutely "right". But it does not 'therefore' follow that we are prevented from saying that some - perhaps many - are "wrong". They can be wrong is so many different ways...

[Barbirollians]

I thought the reviewer did mention the Eastop horn Quintet recording and praised it but did not mention the completion of no 1 .

I am not sure I agree with all the criticism of the Philharmonia accompaniment - smooth it may be but somnolent it is not to my ears . I thought that the point about Pyatt influencing the Marriner/ASMF team was a good one - now they did sound on autopilot elsewhere .

PS I do wonder what the Brain would have been like with Cantelli at the helm instead of Karajan.

[Tony Halstead]

PS I do wonder what the Brain would have been like with Cantelli at the helm instead of Karajan.

Concerto 'no 1 in D' K412 - not much to choose from, unfortunately: a BBC '3rd programme' one in which he played a natural horn in one of the 2 movements.
Concerto 'no 2 in Eb K417' - a superb late 1940s/ early 1950s with Walter Susskind and ( I think) the Philharmonia
Concerto 'no 3 in Eb K447' - at least two German radio recordings that have been intermittently available on LP, one with Rudolf Kempe and the other with Hindemith
Concerto 'no 4' - his very first Mozart concerto recording; with the Hallé orchestra in the mid-1940s ( conducted by Sargent and also the Hallé's leader Laurence Turner who stepped in at the last minute because Sir Malcolm was late for the recording session!)

as you can see, above, there is indeed quite a lot of 'recorded Brain without Karajan' and wonderful it is too!

[Nick Armstrong]

PS I do wonder what the Brain would have been like with Cantelli at the helm instead of Karajan.

[Barbirollians]

PS I do wonder what the Brain would have been like with Cantelli at the helm instead of Karajan.

as you can see, above, there is indeed quite a lot of 'recorded Brain without Karajan' and wonderful it is too!

There is also a recording of the Third with the BBCSO/Sargent that was on BBC legends - not Cantelli though !

[Tony Halstead]

There is also a recording of the Third with the BBCSO/Sargent that was on BBC legends - not Cantelli though !

I apologise for being unable to master the technology of showing clearly that it was YOUR original posting , not mine, that said
"PS I do wonder what the Brain would have been like with Cantelli at the helm instead of Karajan."

I also wonder whether, when you made the posting, you were very well aware that Cantelli was one of the few conductors who was disliked by the mild-mannered, genial Dennis Brain ( according to Brain's biographer Stephen J. Pettitt - not to be confused with the former 'Times' and 'Evening Standard' music critic Stephen Pettitt).

[Nick Armstrong]

I apologise for being unable to master the technology of showing clearly that it was YOUR original posting , not mine, that said
"PS I do wonder what the Brain would have been like with Cantelli at the helm instead of Karajan."

I have "been in" and made the necessary clarificatory changes! (Including to my own post)

I also wonder whether, when you made the posting, you were very well aware that Cantelli was one of the few conductors who was disliked by the mild-mannered, genial Dennis Brain).

That is very interesting !

[Hornspieler]

I apologise for being unable to master the technology of showing clearly that it was YOUR original posting , not mine, that said
"PS I do wonder what the Brain would have been like with Cantelli at the helm instead of Karajan."

I also wonder whether, when you made the posting, you were very well aware that Cantelli was one of the few conductors who was disliked by the mild-mannered, genial Dennis Brain ( according to Brain's biographer Stephen J. Pettitt - not to be confused with the former 'Times' and 'Evening Standard' music critic Stephen Pettitt).

This inevitably brings back to mind an old Beecham Story:

All artists used to ascend in the large lift (including the grand piano on some occasions) when the Royal Festival Hall was still undergoing completion.

On this occasion, there was Sir Thomas Beecham and one of the RPO 2nd violins, a rather shabby little man called Isaac A****s who related this story:

Just as the lift doors were about to close, two more people entered -Walter Legge and the young Guido Cantelli.

Spotting Sir Thomas, Legge immediately siezed his opportunity.

"Good even Sir Thomas. Maybe I introduce the brilliant young conductor Guido Cantelli."

Tommy turned to Ikee and shook him warmly by the hand.

"Mr Cantelli, I am delighted to make your acquaintance."

HS

[Nick Armstrong]

[vinteuil]

... god, each new Beecham quip I hear makes me think him a smaller and more dislikeable man than I had previously thought.

[Nick Armstrong]

... god, each new Beecham quip I hear makes me think him a smaller and more dislikeable man than I had previously thought.

I think you perhaps had to be there, perhaps the twinkle in the eye had young Guido falling about...

On the other hand...

[ardcarp]

Some of the best teachers [used to?] keep a class on its toes and hence under control by a rapier wit. I guess this was Sir T's stratagem with orchestral players. It obviously worked. I am always amazed by some of Tommy's recordings of (for instance) Mozart symphonies. They have a lightness and often a speed which would not be out of place today.

[Barbirollians]

That is interesting Tony re Brain's alleged dislike of Cantelli . In Jon Tolansky's fascinating note to the Icon Cantelli box - Cantelli is described as having been difficult it seems at best but that he was closest to Manoug Parikian and Dennis Brain was another favourite .