BaL 16.05.15 - Mozart: Horn Concertos

[Hornspieler]

Yes I do agree with this, Hornspieler. I also think that the 'best' thing that Dr Freeman-Attwood could do would be to come up with TWO recommendations:
1) His preferred 'modern'/ valved horn recording and
2) His preferred 'old instrument'/valveless horn recording.
Hopefully he will not, in his played extracts, mix the modern instrument versions with the period instrument ones, so as to avoid the 'pitch-lurching' that I mentioned in an earlier posting.

What a clever idea

If we all give our support to Tony's suggestion, perhaps Dr Freeman-Attwood might decide to issue his verdict this way.

It would certainly give equal voice to the advocates of both styles (Mods and Hippsters) of interpretation.

Let's do it.

HS

PS As far as "Absolute Pitch" is concerned, I am completely unqualified to speak. For me, pitch-lurching was what we used to endure on the school playing field.

[Lordgeous]

Surely it will have been recorded some time ago?!

[StephenO]

It seems to me that the word "best" is grossly overused in this forum.

Indeed. Perhaps "most suited to the reviewer's/listener's personal taste" would be more accurate. After all one person's Halstead is another person's Brain.

[visualnickmos]

Indeed. Perhaps "most suited to the reviewer's/listener's personal taste" would be more accurate. After all one person's Halstead is another person's Brain.

How very polite and Civil....

[Hornspieler]

Indeed. Perhaps "most suited to the reviewer's/listener's personal taste" would be more accurate. After all one person's Halstead is another person's Brain.

Some of these comments give me the Pip

HS

[gradus]

Hope the choice is not a no-brainer.

[Tony Halstead]

Hope the choice is not a no-brainer.

[Barbirollians]

Or a yes brainer.

[Tony Halstead]

Or a yes brainer.

The more I listen to the 'legendary' Brain/ Karajan/ Philharmonia recording and compare it to Brain's other Mozart concerto recordings, the more I feel that there is a wonderful potential opportunity here for a 'far-seeing' and enterprising record company to issue a CD of the 'alternative' Brain/ Mozart concertos.

Concerto 'no 1 in D' K412 - not much to choose from, unfortunately: a BBC '3rd programme' one in which he played a natural horn in one of the 2 movements.
Concerto 'no 2 in Eb K417' - a superb late 1940s/ early 1950s with Walter Susskind and ( I think) the Philharmonia
Concerto 'no 3 in Eb K447' - at least two German radio recordings that have been intermittently available on LP, one with Rudolf Kempe and the other with Hindemith
Concerto 'no 4' - his very first Mozart concerto recording; with the Hallé orchestra in the mid-1940s ( conducted by Sargent and also the Hallé's leader Laurence Turner who stepped in at the last minute because Sir Malcolm was late for the recording session!)

I prefer all of these to the Karajan/ Philharmonia version.

If I had to say WHY, I would cite the rather 'somnolent and smoothed-out' Philharmonia in the Karajan version - after all, these piece are not unaccompanied solos for the horn, they are fully integrated concertos where the interplay between soloist and orchestra is paramount to the success of the whole.
Just why the Philharmonia sound so sleepy and uninvolved is a mystery to me, considering the fact that what they were listening to from their soloist was unbelievably MUSICAL and of course technically flawless.

[pastoralguy]

Just why the Philharmonia sound so sleepy and uninvolved is a mystery to me, considering the fact that what they were listening to from their soloist was unbelievably MUSICAL and of course technically flawless.

Perhaps they had motoring magazines on their stands too...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Dennis Brain didn't just restrict himself to various types of French horn:-

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIW0d1ZVfCsAkED7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTEwNTJpbnQzBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDVklEQzEEZ3BvcwMx?p=Concerto+For+Hosepipe+and+Strings+Hoffnung+Music+Festival&vid=45aee0596d83ef281bdf7ca7e663c068&l=1%3A42&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DWN.SEWTVTKRkkpXU5qx0tfG6Q%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DzjYEwGlJ2UM&tit=Concerto+for+Hose-pipe+and+Strings+%281989+Remastered+Version%29+%3A+III.+Allegro&c=0&sigr=11blv5o6j&sigt=12b4gsmpn&sigi=11vkp7l2u&age=1411783376&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=aaplw&tt=b

[Hornspieler]

The more I listen to the 'legendary' Brain/ Karajan/ Philharmonia recording and compare it to Brain's other Mozart concerto recordings, the more I feel that there is a wonderful potential opportunity here for a 'far-seeing' and enterprising record company to issue a CD of the 'alternative' Brain/ Mozart concertos.

Yes please!

Concerto 'no 1 in D' K412 - not much to choose from, unfortunately: a BBC '3rd programme' one in which he played a natural horn in one of the 2 movements.

I didn't know that.

Concerto 'no 2 in Eb K417' - a superb late 1940s/ early 1950s with Walter Susskind and ( I think) the Philharmonia

Dennis' favorite of the 4. I have that recording. Probably one of his first using an Alexander single B flat rotary valve horn.

Concerto 'no 3 in Eb K447' - at least two German radio recordings that have been intermittently available on LP, one with Rudolf Kempe and the other with Hindemith

An interesting comparison with Aubrey's prewar recording with the BBC Symphony orchestra.
Technically, Dennis is better but musically, Aubrey wins for me every time.

Concerto 'no 4' - his very first Mozart concerto recording; with the Hallé orchestra in the mid-1940s ( conducted by Sargent and also the Hallé's leader Laurence Turner who stepped in at the last minute because Sir Malcolm was late for the recording session!)

Unquestionably played on the famous piston valved Raoux horn which had been "rescued" from a cupboard in Covent Garden. The same instrument used on Dennis' Beethoven Horn Sonata, recorded with Denis Mathews whilst both were still in the RAF Central Band.

I prefer all of these to the Karajan/ Philharmonia version.

The Susskind No 2, yes. The other full sets available as listed in this thread are plusses and minusses according to individual taste regarding interpretation rather than technical expertise.

If I had to say WHY, I would cite the rather 'somnolent and smoothed-out' Philharmonia in the Karajan version - after all, these piece are not unaccompanied solos for the horn, they are fully integrated concertos where the interplay between soloist and orchestra is paramount to the success of the whole.
Just why the Philharmonia sound so sleepy and uninvolved is a mystery to me, considering the fact that what they were listening to from their soloist was unbelievably MUSICAL and of course technically flawless.

Come off it, Tony. You know as well as I do that any recording session can never have the atmosphere and inspiration of playing to a live audience, with no retakes or stitching together and that applies to the accompanying orchestra as much as to the soloist.

Have a good weekend everybody.

HS

[LeMartinPecheur]

Lifts head cautiously above parapet...

No flak flying yet???



I thoroughly enjoyed the programme and am tempted to add the recommended natural horn version to my Brain (plus the 78rpm K495), Tuckwell/ Marriner (EMI) and Civil/ Klemperer.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

No flak flying yet???

Like last week's BaL, I found this an excellent survey and presentation, even if I disagreed with the chosen one. Actually, that's not quite correct; more that I disagreed with his reasons for (albeit reluctantly) rejecting my own "choice(s)".

[Bryn]

I must have lost concentration during the broadcast since I do not recall Jonathan Freeman-Attwood pointing out that Pip Eastop played not the usual, justly criticised, Süssmayr completion of K412 but a reconstruction from Mozart's sketches by Stephen Roberts.