BaL 28.03.15 - Elgar: Symphony no. 2 in E flat

[Beef Oven!]

I purchased the latest Barenboim some time ago on the strength of glowing reviews but was rather disappointed, even with the sound which, to my ears, especially in the first movement, sounds very confused and congested. I greatly enjoyed the Sinopoli though, and his version of Symph 1 even more so.

RM was abruptly dismissive of the Sinopoli performance. His loss.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... it is a shame that there isn't a live Halle recording . If it came close to that King's Lynn recording of the First Symphony it would be pretty special .

[pastoralguy]

In the days when Rolf Harris was known as a family entertainer, my evil older sister would shout outside my violin practice room "Can you guess what it is yet?!"

Yes, I had one of those too...

[Stanfordian]

I purchased the latest Barenboim some time ago on the strength of glowing reviews but was rather disappointed, even with the sound which, to my ears, especially in the first movement, sounds very confused and congested. I greatly enjoyed the Sinopoli though, and his version of Symph 1 even more so.

Hiya Lordgeous,

I also have the Staatskapelle Berlin/Barenboim of Elgar Sympgony No. 2 and although there this is a most moving performance there is certainly something badly amiss with the sound. I would love someone with a super-duper system to hear it and pass judgement.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

RM was abruptly dismissive of the Sinopoli performance. His loss.

Actually, he returned to it for a second time, just to have another supercilious dig. Listening to the programme live, I thought he talked a great deal of sense - indeed I still think that. But now that I've listened to it for a second and third time, I've begun to think of R.M. as another broadcaster who likes the sound of his own voice.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

[SIZE=2] I particularly noticed this bit: " (Sir Charles noted over 500 such 'slides' from Elgar's two recordings of this work from the 1920s—EMI, 6/92 and Pearl, 9/92—and subsequently incorporated them into the RPO's parts)."

Checking the full score, R.M. chose the very section where Elgar actually called for a bit of finger-sliding, the word "glissez" being written above the violin parts just after figure 86. Despite the hype, I can't say I noticed much portamento elsewhere in the excerpt played. Indeed, Barbirolli made more of it.

[Petrushka]

I've just played the LPO/Solti recording and my goodness, it's good isn't it? OK the first movement goes at quite a lick but it's not breathless and the sound is superb completely blowing the recent Barenboim out of the water. The LPO strings for Solti are simply wonderful and every strand of the texture is there in every department. The third movement percussion onslaught could do with being a lot more forward but that applies to most versions.

The second movement is deeply felt, possibly the best on disc, and those strings again! I did wonder whether Solti didn't use the organ at the climax of the finale after all because the sound here has real depth, better than Slatkin and rivalling Handley, both of whom do use the organ pedal.

Solti's was the first Elgar 2 I ever heard (bought in June 1975) and I never really got used to it before I got Boult a year later. Listening to the Solti on CD for the first time in many years has been a real treat.

[Lordgeous]

Hiya Lordgeous,

I also have the Staatskapelle Berlin/Barenboim of Elgar Sympgony No. 2 and although there this is a most moving performance there is certainly something badly amiss with the sound. I would love someone with a super-duper system to hear it and pass judgement.

Interesting that you agree. There does indeed seem to be something strange about it. I am an audio/ studio engineer and have quite accurate and revealing monitors. Anyone else feel the same? I've had Boult (on Lyrita) for years and got to know the piece from that recording (which i still enjoy) but the Sinopoli came over as very fresh, and rethought. Good sound too.

[seabright]

Revisiting last year's Proms performance on You Tube with Vasily Petrenko and the RLPO makes me wonder if they recorded it for commercial release. Does anyone know for sure? The comments under the video suggest that it ought to have been: ... "absolutely wonderful" ... "thrilling" ... "what a great performance" ... etc. ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4oLNgPj8sA

[Barbirollians]

Checking the full score, R.M. chose the very section where Elgar actually called for a bit of finger-sliding, the word "glissez" being written above the violin parts just after figure 86. Despite the hype, I can't say I noticed much portamento elsewhere in the excerpt played. Indeed, Barbirolli made more of it.

Exactly, as much as I am interested by and have ordered a secondhand copy of the Mackerras - the bit that RM liked is played more in style by Barbirolli and the Halle .

[akiralx]

RM was abruptly dismissive of the Sinopoli performance. His loss.

I will relisten to this as his version of the First is my favourite for the work. I have never owned the Solti, only his First on Decca Legends, so will acquire that.

Of versions on SACD I have the Ashkenazy and the Oramo - having relistened to both I must in fact express a preference for the SSO/Ashkenazy which sounds more involving and often reveals glories of the fine-spun scoring which can be hidden in non-hirez recordings. I am listening again now and really enjoying it.

The Oramo is rather light-toned and seems to me to lack some of the work's innate gravitas.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I've just played the LPO/Solti recording and my goodness, it's good isn't it?

YES!!!

the first movement goes at quite a lick but it's not breathless

Exactly - Solti follows Elgar's tempo (and metronome) markings scrupulously - and hears that this is a Symphonic Sonata Allegro, revealing a real swagger to the "nobility" - this is a Symphony with fire in its belly! But it's not aggressive (as can be the case with this conductor) - instead (just as the score makes clear) this energy puts into relief the gentler, more reflective Second Group Music - Solti's conducting of the first bar has the last in its sights.

The LPO strings for Solti are simply wonderful and every strand of the texture is there in every department. The third movement percussion onslaught could do with being a lot more forward but that applies to most versions.

Yes - but those final bars (the high woodwinds on the knife edge between a "wheeee" of delight and a screech of terror) are superb: that final beda-daaa-THWACK! really rattling the rafters - again presenting the contrast with the opening of the finale that the score makes clear.

The second movement is deeply felt, possibly the best on disc, and those strings again!

Yes - I think so, too: no small achievement. (This is the movement I would have played to Webern had he asked me - as he did Searle - to name something by "your Elgar" that could match the slow movement of Bruckner's Seventh. ) I have reservations about a lot of Solti's recordings, but this disc alone demonstrates beyond any shadow of doubt that he was a great conductor. (Pretty damn fine orchestra, too!)

[Barbirollians]

Having a look at the references to Barbirolli performances of Elgar 2 there was apparently a performance in Leningrad with the BBCSO in 1967 that brought the house down . I wonder if a recording exists ?

[Alison]

Very bitty stop/start performance from Barenboim. Moments of rare textural clarity for sure, some lovely playing yet to use an old Robert Layton phrase 'one is always aware of an interpreter at work.'

[Nick Armstrong]

Very bitty stop/start performance from Barenboim. Moments of rare textural clarity for sure, some lovely playing yet to use an old Robert Layton phrase 'one is always aware of an interpreter at work.'

That's the conclusion I came to, too.

Pet & ferney haven't half got me curious to hear the Solti now ...

(Pretty damn fine orchestra, too!)

Amazing, the LPO's track record in this work and No 1...