BaL 28.03.15 - Elgar: Symphony no. 2 in E flat

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I think to be honest the one performance I could not live without is the later 1964 EMI Barbirolli - yes I know in parts it is too slow but nobody gets closer to the heart of this music .

[seabright]

Today's 'Radio Times' entry for the up-coming 'CD Review' says that Elgar's 2nd Symphony "was derided by Sir Thomas Beecham as a neo-Gothic monstrosity, the musical equivalent of St. Pancras Station." On the other hand, whenever I've come across other quotes of this same comment, it was said that TB's remark was directed towards the 1st Symphony. Is 'RT' right or wrong?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Today's 'Radio Times' entry for the up-coming 'CD Review' says that Elgar's 2nd Symphony "was derided by Sir Thomas Beecham as a neo-Gothic monstrosity, the musical equivalent of St. Pancras Station." On the other hand, whenever I've come across other quotes of this same comment, it was said that TB's remark was directed towards the 1st Symphony. Is 'RT' right or wrong?

I've always seen it aimed at the First Symphony, so RT may have got it wrong. TB certainly did (whichever Symphony to which he meant to refer).

[secondfiddle]

[QUOTE=Eine Alpensinfonie;475431]0930
Building a Library
Richard Morrison compares available versions of Elgar's Symphony No. 2 and makes a personal recommendation.

conductor and wag Sir Thomas Beecham famously derided Elgar's first Symphony as a a neo-Gothic monstrosity, the musical equivalent of St Pancras Station.

Beecham made this comment about the First Symphony - see Neville Cardus's 'Sir Thomas Beecham' Collins 1961 p.113 where he quotes Beecham:

'Dear old Elgar - he is furious with me for dramatically cutting his A flat symphony - it's a very long work, the musical equivalent of the Towers of St Pancras Station - neo-Gothic, you know . . '

In 1909 Beecham toured the work with his Beecham Symphony Orchestra for three weeks from Exeter up to Kendal and even to Dublin. Various reviews reported Beecham having made cuts at certain venues, some longer than others. A furious Havergal Brian wrote about in The Musical Times, saying the actual time in performance under Beecham was 38 minutes.

[Bryn]

The Loughran arrived in the post today. No chance to listen yet.

[Bryn]

[QUOTE=secondfiddle;476434]

0930
Building a Library
Richard Morrison compares available versions of Elgar's Symphony No. 2 and makes a personal recommendation.

conductor and wag Sir Thomas Beecham famously derided Elgar's first Symphony as a a neo-Gothic monstrosity, the musical equivalent of St Pancras Station.

Beecham made this comment about the First Symphony - see Neville Cardus's 'Sir Thomas Beecham' Collins 1961 p.113 where he quotes Beecham:

'Dear old Elgar - he is furious with me for dramatically cutting his A flat symphony - it's a very long work, the musical equivalent of the Towers of St Pancras Station - neo-Gothic, you know . . '

In 1909 Beecham toured the work with his Beecham Symphony Orchestra for three weeks from Exeter up to Kendal and even to Dublin. Various reviews reported Beecham having made cuts at certain venues, some longer than others. A furious Havergal Brian wrote about in The Musical Times, saying the actual time in performance under Beecham was 38 minutes.

I would have expected no more from Beecham, a vastly over-hyped excuse for a musician.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Um... Er... The quote system of the forum seems to have misquoted me in error.

Not that I mind, but please ensure that the square brackets are always correctly placed.

[Pabmusic]

...I would have expected no more from Beecham, a vastly over-hyped excuse for a musician.

Perfectly summed up.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

[QUOTE=Bryn;476437]

I would have expected no more from Beecham, a vastly over-hyped excuse for a musician.

Whilst deploring Beecham's musical vandalism, he remained a fine musician, sometimes having questionable taste - perhaps something for a separate thread. There's much to talk about in relation to self-promoting conductors, past and present.

[visualnickmos]

Today's 'Radio Times' entry for the up-coming 'CD Review' says that Elgar's 2nd Symphony "was derided by Sir Thomas Beecham as a neo-Gothic monstrosity, the musical equivalent of St. Pancras Station." On the other hand, whenever I've come across other quotes of this same comment, it was said that TB's remark was directed towards the 1st Symphony. Is 'RT' right or wrong?

How times have progressed. The two subjects of the quote, now very rightly, revered and venerated as magnificent examples of their relative art-form. But we know Beecham was often deliberately inflammatory - just his style.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... we know Beecham was often deliberately inflammatory -

Ironic, given that the family fortune originated in an anti-inflammatory drug.

[aeolium]

How times have progressed. The two subjects of the quote, now very rightly, revered and venerated as magnificent examples of their relative art-form. But we know Beecham was often deliberately inflammatory - just his style.

Yes, he said some really idiotic things. But then so have plenty of artists down the ages. As Richard Barrett mentioned on the Boulez thread, quoting David Hockney, "never believe what an artist says, only what he does". For me, Beecham will always be a very fine musician who contributed hugely to the improvement of the musical life of this country - particularly in raising standards of orchestral playing. I treasure the recordings I have of his conducting.

[visualnickmos]

Yes, he said some really idiotic things. But then so have plenty of artists down the ages. As Richard Barrett mentioned on the Boulez thread, quoting David Hockney, "never believe what an artist says, only what he does". For me, Beecham will always be a very fine musician who contributed hugely to the improvement of the musical life of this country - particularly in raising standards of orchestral playing. I treasure the recordings I have of his conducting.

I wasn't deriding him - not at all! (Not that you were suggesting I was) but I'm all for 'off the wallness'

I have a few Beecham recordings and they are very special - for example a BBC (Prom?) CD of Beethoven's 7th, of which I think, Beecham said something like "It sounds like buffalos dancing..." Certainly not in his rendition which is electric!

Was it Karajan whom he described as "a sort of musical Malcolm Sargent!?" I love that one.....

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... something like "It sounds like buffalos dancing..."

Are buffalo "something like" Yaks? (And, depending on who is "quoting" him, it's either a "herd" or "a lot", and they are either "dancing" or "jumping about".)

[silvestrione]

As Richard Barrett mentioned on the Boulez thread, .

Boulez thread? I've not found this....could you give me a reference?