BaL 28.03.15 - Elgar: Symphony no. 2 in E flat

[richardfinegold]

Can anyone please point out anything that is 'innately British' in the Elgar 2? It is so close to the world of Mahler and Strauss as to put it firmly in the Central European tradition.

By the way, Tippett was pretty big in Chicago in the 1970s (his 4th Symphony was first performed by Solti and the CSO) and Birtwistle's Violin Concerto was first performed in Boston.

Britten gets performed a lot on this side of the pond. My CSO series for next year is to include the Sinfonia de Requiem.
So I just listened to Elgar 2 on Spotify this morning, as I was watching my 2 year old Grandson. Jeffrey didn't like it much, but at least it facilitated getting him to nap. His Grandfather was hard pressed to label anything as "innately English" about it , except for some characteristic reserve. No one will ever confuse Elgar with Tchaikovsky , Mahler, Shosty, etc
In this piece he holds his cards closer to the vest than in his other big works. The music is mostly introverted, which makes the more declaratory episodes more potent when they do arrive

[Petrushka]

Somewhat to my surprise I find that I have the Slatkin recording lurking on my shelves after all.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Britten gets performed a lot on this side of the pond.

What do Americans call the Pacific? The Lake?

[richardfinegold]

What do Americans call the Pacific? The Lake?

I believe we appropriated the "Pond" term from sophisticates in your country...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I believe we appropriated the "Pond" term from sophisticates in your country...

I didn't know that. I know my Australian relatives call every sea, however small, "the ocean".

Getting back to the "English" sound, many associate it with big string melodies, doubled by clarinets and horns, often with a descending bass-line.

[EdgeleyRob]

I think the characteristic Elgarian orchestration has become confused with "Englishness". It's actually quite Germanic.

But better.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But better.

Indeed.

[Petrushka]

I played the LPO/Slatkin recording tonight for the first time 20 years or so and was most impressed. For once the pounding percussion in the third movement does come across with some force and that alone is enough to make it a live contender for BaL this Saturday in my view.

[vibratoforever]

I think it's reasonable to expect any symphony described as "one of the very greatest ever penned", and not only by Petrushka, to have had any number of non-British recordings by now, over 100 years after its first performance, but evidently these can be counted on the fingers of one hand. The only American performance of the work on CD that I know is a 'live' broadcast from 1964 with the Boston Symphony under Barbirolli on the 'Music & Arts' label (CD-251(2)).

Interestingly, the Wiki article on the work reveals that its first performance under Elgar in May 1911 received "mixed reviews" here, while the US Premiere in Cincinnati later that year under Stokowski fared little better: "The composition is pleasant and it is interesting; but it is not great, nor in any sense convincing" wrote one Cincinnati critic, whilst a New York commentator a few weeks later wrote: "One cannot listen to even the most eloquent pleading for nearly an hour without fatigue, and that was the first impression this music made – of restless, unpitying earnestness."

Well, these things are all a matter of taste and opinion. I heard Rob C on EC the other day say he thought Sibelius's 7th was the greatest 20th century symphony ever written but I dare say plenty of people will say exactly the same about some other work instead!

As you say a Boston performance was available briefly on Music and Arts. I have a recording of a different performance of the symphony in that series of Barbirolli concerts in 1964. At the end of what is clearly a radio recording the announcer advises it was the first time the BSO had played Elgar 2 since a performance with Boult in 1935!

They are both more volatile than the Barbirolli EMI recordings, especially in Movement 3 and the percussion are splendidly forward and loud.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

As you say a Boston performance was available briefly on Music and Arts. I have a recording of a different performance of the symphony in that series of Barbirolli concerts in 1964. At the end of what is clearly a radio recording the announcer advises it was the first time the BSO had played Elgar 2 since a performance with Boult in 1935!

I had that performance once upon a time, but it disappeared in a burglary in the mid-90s. I've never been able to find it since then.

[seabright]

I had that performance once upon a time, but it disappeared in a burglary in the mid-90s. I've never been able to find it since then.

Sorry to hear about the burglary. M&A issued the Barbirolli set in 1987 and in addition to Elgar 2 it contained RVW's 6th Symphony, Delius's "Walk to the Paradise Garden" and a Purcell "Suite No. 2" arr. Barbirolli himself. M&A used to sail close to the wind regarding copyright, so these broadcasts, in very good stereo for their day, were labelled as being by the "BSO Symphony Orchestra (1964)". Collectors 'in the know' would realise straight away which orchestra it actually was! The set's no longer listed on the M&A website so I guess it was deleted for any number of reasons. That's rather a pity, as the Boston players clearly give JB their all in these performances.

[akiralx]

I don't think Sir Simon has recorded either of the symphonies but he did record 'Falstaff' and 'Gerontius' with the CBSO. There was a tantalising recording of one of the Pomp & Circumstances with Die Berliner Philharmoniker made shortly after he got there. Alas, no more.

Also Enigma with the CBSO…though if you want the CBSO in that work I would prefer Oramo's.

[akiralx]

I have heard many recordings of this wonderful work, and my favourites are BBCSO/Boult (1945) and LSO/Tate - which I believe is available in a EMI twofer but is not on the p.1 listing.

Tate's reading is wonderfully long-breathed but in no way ponderous - rather similar to Bryden Thomson's very fine one but tauter and more red-blooded. The most heartfelt threnody (II) and overwhelming percussion and wonderful oboe solo in III. Plus the exquisite nostalgia of the finale's closing pages.

Here in Victoria we did hear the Melbourne SO under Bramwell Tovey give an excellent performance of the symphony last year - I'm sure most of the audience did not know it and it made a great impression.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... and LSO/Tate - which I believe is available in a EMI twofer but is not on the p.1 listing.

Tate's reading is wonderfully long-breathed but in no way ponderous - rather similar to Bryden Thomson's very fine one but tauter and more red-blooded. The most heartfelt threnody (II) and overwhelming percussion and wonderful oboe solo in III. Plus the exquisite nostalgia of the finale's closing pages.

Thanks for that, akiraix - now added to the list.

[Barbirollians]

I think to be honest the one performance I could not live without is the later 1964 EMI Barbirolli - yes I know in parts it is too slow but nobody gets closer to the heart of this music .