BaL 23.04.11 - Rossini: Stabat Mater

[Chris Newman]

am51,

I bought the Fricsay when we were kids (probably about 1964) on the bargain Heliodor label. It is still superb. Although he plumped for the Pappano (which I shall buy) RO spoke highly of Fricsay (1954) and Giulini (1981) as I hoped he would. I am sure you will be satisfied: if not I'll go halves with Don
Chris.

[VodkaDilc]

This was a calm, dignified and informative BAL with the recommendation I had expected and hoped for.

[umslopogaas]

I have Fricsay on LP and Kertesz on CD. I assume Fricsay is only available in mono, my discs look too early to have had a stereo version, but they arent dated - does anyone know if they ever came out in stereo?

[Don Petter]

I have Fricsay on LP and Kertesz on CD. I assume Fricsay is only available in mono, my discs look too early to have had a stereo version, but they arent dated - does anyone know if they ever came out in stereo?

The Fricsay is from 1955 and mono only. I think RO mentioned this but said, in effect, that the recording is pretty good and shouldn't hold one back from the performance. It certainly doesn't worry me.

[gurnemanz]

but do others feel that finding a 'winner' is not necessarily that important?

It depends who you are. Presumably, some listeners really are "building a library" either from scratch or a very low base. They probably just want one version as a starter and would like to know which one to buy from someone who has listened to available recordings. It obviously makes the whole enterprise sound dubious in the manner of a talent show or a beauty contest, if you call BAL "finding a winner".

I expect many people on this board already have most of the standard works in their collections and aren't necessarily looking to add another one unless a very compelling case can be made for it. Finance and shelf space (and in my case wifely comments about obsessive CD buying) are also factors. For such people BAL is of interest because you can hear an "expert" (which I am definitely not) comparing different recordings. I very rarely buy the recommended version.

[Don Petter]

Yes, I really do hope that BaL fulfills its brief and does introduce people to new works or new versions of known works. My use of the scare quotes round 'winner' was to indicate that there should not be winners or losers in this exercise.

[Barbirollians]

With the very greatest respect to the ranting HIPP fans on this thread RO is quite perfectly entitled to reject a recording of this Stabat Mater due to its soloists.

He has been perfectly appreciative of HIPP performances of lots of works in his reviewing time - indeed lauding Norrington's LCP Beethoven recordings when they came out as being of enormous importance .

In any event after Goodman's obsessively HIPPite Beethoven Violin Concerto BAL it was refreshing to hear a proper BAL judging a work on its merits

PS EA I think the recording you are referring to is the very hotly criticised by HIPP fans of the Pergolesi Stabat Mater with Pappano

[amateur51]

With the very greatest respect to the ranting HIPP fans on this thread RO is quite perfectly entitled to reject a recording of this Stabat Mater due to its soloists.

I quite agree barbirollians.

I just thought that it would have been more professional if he had played an example to the adults in his audience so that they might make up their own minds, rather than their being required to take it from tiefernst Uncle Richard

I think it's a bit strong to call my initial post a rant unless 'scandalous' rates as ranting in your household? ... in which case I'll tiptoe out of the door now

[Chris Newman]

Antonio Pappano landed on my door mat this morning: I do have a large letterbox.

[Barbirollians]

Amateur 51 ! You said " rant over "in your post !!! Hence my reference to ranting

[Panjandrum]

Coming late to this BAL, having just caught up with it on the iplayer after a long Easter sojourn in foreign climes, I found it to be eminently sensible, and model of clear diction, with the presenters' very real learning worn lightly. I, for one, feel no imminent compulsion to augment my current library version of the Muti,even if it is no longer RO's first choice. However, for those lamenting the lack of an HIPP alternative, RO's own words from Gramophone in 2003, may be of interest. "Marcus Creed's recent Berlin recording, which uses period instruments and a small specialist choir, has a pleasingly 'personal' feel to it. But the version I have returned to with most pleasure is Muti's. He brings a sense of drama and spirituality to the piece and is well served by his soloists, notably the sweet-toned Catherine Malfitario and Agnes Baltsa, brooding and intense. Malfitano was the first singer to record the exquisite cadenza at the end of the 'Sancta Mater' which Rossini wrote for Clara Novello in 1850"

[amateur51]

Amateur 51 ! You said " rant over "in your post !!! Hence my reference to ranting

My apologies, barbirollians - so I did

Thanks for giving me the chance to apologise rather than just going away thinking "sad ol' duffer, he don't know what he's written half the time"

[Barbirollians]

I think this was an absolutely exemplary BAL - erudite, fascinating and well reasoned . Bravo

[Chris Newman]

What do others think of Rossini's "Stabat Mater"?

I came to it in my late youth through Giulini's performance at the Festival Hall and who had just knocked me in all directions with live performances and the "official" EMI recording of the Verdi Requiem and I accepted it with the same alacrity. However, if I suggested that choirs I was involved with put it on the reaction was akin to me suggesting we tried throwing stink bombs in church. It was "vulgar", "OTT", "cheap and nasty", the fugal Amen was "childish and inaccurately written" and so on. Yet I still love it, Richard Osborne in his notes for the Pappano recording talks of "real seriousness of purpose" and "splendid inspiration" in the double fugue and he calls the recollection "of the work's sombe opening ... an additional stroke of imagination tying the work's start and finish ... together." I agree with RO. What do others think?

[amateur51]

What do others think of Rossini's "Stabat Mater"?

I came to it in my late youth through Giulini's performance at the Festival Hall and who had just knocked me in all directions with live performances and the "official" EMI recording of the Verdi Requiem and I accepted it with the same alacrity. However, if I suggested that choirs I was involved with put it on the reaction was akin to me suggesting we tried throwing stink bombs in church. It was "vulgar", "OTT", "cheap and nasty", the fugal Amen was "childish and inaccurately written" and so on. Yet I still love it, Richard Osborne in his notes for the Pappano recording talks of "real seriousness of purpose" and "splendid inspiration" in the double fugue the calls the recollection "of the work's sombe opening ... an additional stroke of imagination tying the work's start and finish ... together." I agree with RO. What do others think?

I agree with you & RO, Chris - a splendid work.

Bit naughty of RO not to mention his [marginal] interest in the Pappano recording - or did he and I missed it?