BaL 28.02.14 - Schubert: Piano Sonata no 20 in A D959

[waldo]

Just to say, waldo, thank you and others for some most insightful posts which have given me something to think about The trouble with a forum like this, one has no way of telling what's behind a particular post, hence my bad reaction to #71. I'm not a pianist (I'm a plucker), and have learnt something from this. (I have form with Brendel though, first heard live in 1969 and many times since )

That's very kind of you indeed. I do hope you'll forgive my rather aggressive reply. I say things in the heat of the moment and then spend the rest of the day wishing I'd kept my mouth shut. It is never a good idea to hurt another person's feelings, but I seem to do it quite a lot.

As for Brendel, I was certainly exaggerating quite a bit, so you were right to question it. I do really like him in odd pieces here and there - especially his Mozart. I don't think anyone has done a better Adagio in B minor. I also like his Wanderer fantasy, which has tremendous drive and dash. And I like his essays.......

Anyway, thanks again for the kind comments.

[clive heath]

I concede the phrase marks which aren't in the imslp, neither are the staccato marks over the 1st notes of the 1st and 5th bars, my feeling is that with the rests in play it doesn't sound different, it sounds right. As another example of where the treble bass equality is essential is the start of the final variation of the 3rd movement of Beethoven Sonata No. 30 Opus 109. Top liners miss this completely.... and another thing ..wasn't the Alberti bass meant to compensate for the lack of sustaining power of early pianos? so why does anyone need to pedal through it?

The opening R.H. two bar rhythmic pattern with its two rests appears in the bass several times later in the Rondo movement and it needs to be right there as well.

[clive heath]

I've now listened to chunks of the Brendel ( over-pedalled to mush), Kempff (clearer but too polite) and Pollini (8 bars was enough of him) on youtube and would like to offer the imslp performance by Paul Pitman as a corrective and even he doesn't get some of the details discussed above. Maybe there's some uncertainty as to whether this is seen as a classical composition which needs the formal, structural, detailed elements to be the guiding principle or a romantic one in which case it's pretty much anything goes, the (perceived!) emotional and dramatic content overrides all else.

[silvestrione]

I've now listened to chunks of the Brendel ( over-pedalled to mush), Kempff (clearer but too polite) and Pollini (8 bars was enough of him) on youtube and would like to offer the imslp performance by Paul Pitman as a corrective and even he doesn't get some of the details discussed above. Maybe there's some uncertainty as to whether this is seen as a classical composition which needs the formal, structural, detailed elements to be the guiding principle or a romantic one in which case it's pretty much anything goes, the (perceived!) emotional and dramatic content overrides all else.

Thanks for your very interesting analysis, Clive. You are certainly doing damage to my love of the Brendel performances!
I find your argument unanswerable really. I listened to Serkin's last movement, a performance of verve and great structural power and energy. He does suggest the first quaver rest, just! Then in the later sections where that rhythmic effect is prominent, there is no mistaking its importance to the whole.
Integrity is the word for Serkin, i think: not an ounce of false sentiment, affectation or mannerism anywhere. Great drive and forward movement, so the long repeated passage with left hand triplets does not over stay its welcome, as it can do with, e.g. Uchida. And the 'minor' key episode feels like a real sonata-rondo 'working out'. Which makes the dramatic pauses and heart-stopping modulations in the last appearance of the theme even more affecting.

The modern tend in Schubert has moved away from what is represented by Serkin. It is to over pedal, and over-poeticise. Another antidote is Michelangeli, but he only ever played the early A minor sonata.

[waldo]

Been ransacking my collection and found another pianist (apart from Schiff) who really plays what's written: Ingrid Haebler. Exceptionally crisp and articulate playing. Really lovely touches of rubato in the transitions. Very highly recommended, if you haven't come across her before.

[Bryn]

Been ransacking my collection and found another pianist (apart from Schiff) who really plays what's written: Ingrid Haebler. Exceptionally crisp and articulate playing. Really lovely touches of rubato in the transitions. Very highly recommended, if you haven't come across her before.

Damn it! All Your Music (amazon.co.uk marketplace( want £15.08. That's just 8p over the limit for avoiding import duty. Probably worth paying the extra to get the set from a supplier sending from within the EU.

[waldo]

Damn it! All Your Music (amazon.co.uk marketplace( want £15.08. That's just 8p over the limit for avoiding import duty. Probably worth paying the extra to get the set from a supplier sending from within the EU.

You can always get the 34 disc Ingrid Haebler plays Mozart and Schubert box set for £156 instead.........

[Bryn]

You can always get the 34 disc Ingrid Haebler plays Mozart and Schubert box set for £156 instead.........

But that's also from over The Pond. To get it from within the EU it's £200.77 (with 'free' p&p).

[silvestrione]

Just to add a thought to my #124:

on the other hand, the second, left-hand play-through of the last movement theme has no rests (in its first half) and even acquires some tied notes! Clearly meant to be legato, songful. So Schubert has it both ways.

[Karafan]

Damn it! All Your Music (amazon.co.uk marketplace( want £15.08. That's just 8p over the limit for avoiding import duty. Probably worth paying the extra to get the set from a supplier sending from within the EU.

is there a link to the Haebler, please?

[Bryn]

is there a link to the Haebler, please?

Search out ASIN: B00DG86BBU at amazon.co.uk.

Sorry, I got the last of the UK based low priced sets (£18.26 including p&p). Now you have to either chance paying duty and handling charges on the £15.08 + p&p offer, or opt for a German supplier at £25.19 including p&p.

[Kamisama]

Search out ASIN: B00DG86BBU at amazon.co.uk.

Sorry, I got the last of the UK based low priced sets (£18.26 including p&p). Now you have to either chance paying duty and handling charges on the £15.08 + p&p offer, or opt for a German supplier at £25.19 including p&p.

Or one can get it directly from Amazon France for around (currently) £17.50 inc. postage to the UK.

http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B00DG86BBU/

[french frank]

Looks like a good spot! Welcome Kamisama :-)

Btw, anyone need to have 'Passez la souris sur l'image pour zoomer' translated?!