BaL 14.02.15 - Ravel: Piano Concerto in G

[Nick Armstrong]

Ed having been to a surprisingly lack-lustre performance (relatively-speaking - of course Uchida and Salonen were very good, but....) on Thursday, in the car yesterday I put on that performance at the Prom we were both at, Thibaudet (he didn't get a mention from JS on BaL earlier, perhaps surprisingly) with the Gustav Mahler Youth Orch under Jordan.... It impressed and delighted yet again, what a lovely performance that was! I recall we differed slightly about its merits, and that I loved it more than you. For one thing, the slips and fluffs that worried me on Thursday were absent, in their place a sparkling accuracy that just takes me along. The outer movements seem to be built on and driven by the bass section, like the bass and drums of a good jazz group - the cellos and bassoons (yes, Ferney!) and basses propelling the thing along with all the riffs and solos above slotting in beautifully above.

[visualnickmos]

It's the Orchestre Philharmonique de Monte Carlo - and my "local" orchestra. The much-lamented late Yakov Kreizberg persuaded the great and good of Monaco to up the budget and increase the orchestra's size. It's a good orchestra, which attracts excellent soloists and often features young conductors. In fact the last time I heard the Ravel G major concerto was in Monte Carlo with Jean-Efflam Bavouzet a couple of years ago. So less of the sniffy remarks about it, Nick! Decidedly better than that band in Montpellier.

I have no idea as to what I wrote that could be construed as "sniffy remarks" about the Monte Carlo orchestra! Why on earth would I be sniffy about an orchestra that I genuinely know very little about, let alone heard or seen? Now that's out of the way - thanks for the background information about them. It's always fascinating, the snippets of knowledge that one can learn here. You are very lucky to have what is clearly an illustrious orchestra so nearby. Montpellier has two opera houses, as you almost certainly are aware, Le Corum, which is quite new, and in the centre of town, the very grand Comédie. I'm quite surprised that the orchestra isn't perhaps, quite what it could be......

[edashtav]

Ed having been to a surprisingly lack-lustre performance (relatively-speaking - of course Uchida and Salonen were very good, but....) on Thursday, in the car yesterday I put on that performance at the Prom we were both at, Thibaudet (he didn't get a mention from JS on BaL earlier, perhaps surprisingly) with the Gustav Mahler Youth Orch under Jordan.... It impressed and delighted yet again, what a lovely performance that was! I recall we differed slightly about its merits, and that I loved it more than you. For one thing, the slips and fluffs that worried me on Thursday were absent, in their place a sparkling accuracy that just takes me along. The outer movements seem to be built on and driven by the bass section, like the bass and drums of a good jazz group - the cellos and bassoons (yes, Ferney!) and basses propelling the thing along with all the riffs and solos above slotting in beautifully above.

I didn't record that Proms performance "Maurice" and, had I done so , I fear I should have binned it. I was very critical but things extraneous to the performance may have influenced my judgement. Firstly, I was in the circle where individual seats "balance" the orchestra in strange ways - I recall that you were "down below". Secondly, my previous live performance had been played by Martha Argerich and although the support from the RPO (under her former husband Charles Dutoit) was "hit 'n miss ", her performance had crystalline clarity and beauty. High Expectations can make me me over-critical. Now that you've revealed your true identity, I fear that I must bow to your unique knowledge!

[HighlandDougie]

I have no idea as to what I wrote that could be construed as "sniffy remarks" about the Monte Carlo orchestra! Why on earth would I be sniffy about an orchestra that I genuinely know very little about, let alone heard or seen? Now that's out of the way - thanks for the background information about them. It's always fascinating, the snippets of knowledge that one can learn here. You are very lucky to have what is clearly an illustrious orchestra so nearby. Montpellier has two opera houses, as you almost certainly are aware, Le Corum, which is quite new, and in the centre of town, the very grand Comédie. I'm quite surprised that the orchestra isn't perhaps, quite what it could be......

Apologies - I should have added an emot - "I'm not being serious" - icon. I am lucky as the other local band, the Nice Philharmonic is not really in the same league (although they are having a stab at Bruckner's 5th next month, with Jeffrey Tate conducting). Back on topic - the Ravel concerto - one of my concert highlights was Martha Argerich playing it with the ECYO under Claudio Abbado at the Edinburgh Festival. Her performance was beyond criticism in my book (light years away from the glacial Michelangeli). The young musicians kept clapping and cheering (along with the audience) so, relenting to their enthusiasm, she gave us an encore - a Scarlatti sonata if I remember correctly. So I wasn't at all surprised that she was the BaL choice, much as I also like Benjamin Grosvenor, J-E B and Samson François. It was interesting to hear JS's comments about the Katchen recording - my introduction to the work a long, long time ago. It's in the first of the Decca Sound boxes and, like JS, couldn't quite see why I had thought it to be so good but I suppose that I didn't know any better at the time.

[visualnickmos]

Apologies - I should have added an emot - "I'm not being serious" - icon. I am lucky as the other local band, the Nice Philharmonic is not really in the same league (although they are having a stab at Bruckner's 5th next month, with Jeffrey Tate conducting). Back on topic - the Ravel concerto - one of my concert highlights was Martha Argerich playing it with the ECYO under Claudio Abbado at the Edinburgh Festival. Her performance was beyond criticism in my book (light years away from the glacial Michelangeli). The young musicians kept clapping and cheering (along with the audience) so, relenting to their enthusiasm, she gave us an encore - a Scarlatti sonata if I remember correctly. So I wasn't at all surprised that she was the BaL choice, much as I also like Benjamin Grosvenor, J-E B and Samson François. It was interesting to hear JS's comments about the Katchen recording - my introduction to the work a long, long time ago. It's in the first of the Decca Sound boxes and, like JS, couldn't quite see why I had thought it to be so good but I suppose that I didn't know any better at the time.

Bonsoir HD! No apologies needed; I think I can safely say we understand each other.... but very kind of you to acknowledge, nonetheless. Thank you.

About Michelangeli; I too, thought he sounded rather 'Arctic' in what is essentially Mediterranean music.... Like you, I wasn't surprised at the final choice - indeed, it was a glittering performance, but I'm not sure it was one I would choose as my point of reference. The reason being that I feel that 'live' performances can sometimes - not always - be great for occasional visits but become a little too invasive on repeated listenings. That's purely my thought - nothing more. I, too was very impressed by the young Benjamin Grosvenor - one to watch, I'm sure. The extracts played were dazzling. It doesn't appear to be on CD as yet...?
And the Katchen; interesting comment about 'not knowing better at the time'. A bit frightening that, as it may imply that one's enjoyment - for want of a better word - is solely dependent on an acquisition of "greater knowledge" - blind listening is, I'm sure, a good thing sometimes.....

Off-topic;
Just want to say - I'm still loving the Bruckner; now there's a composer! The more one becomes familiar with the work, or to be more precise, the more one listens, the more one discovers - a great and wonderful journey; that's how I would describe my Bruckner experience, so far.....

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I, too was very impressed by the young Benjamin Grosvenor - one to watch, I'm sure. The extracts played were dazzling. It doesn't appear to be on CD as yet...?.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rhapsody-Blue-Benjamin-Grosvenor/dp/B0086ALXQG/ref=pd_sim_m_h__1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1440NX1XM65JAGYS7ZHV

... far from expensive, too!

[Rolmill]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rhapsody-Blu...1XM65JAGYS7ZHV

... far from expensive, too!

Strongly recommended vn, especially at that price - the Saint-Saens no. 2 is even better than the Ravel performance imv, and the Gershwin is pretty damn good too. Grosvenor is fast becoming one of my favourite pianists (and his Chopin/Franck prom last year showed that he's as impressive live as he is on record).

[Barbirollians]

A very fine performance chosen as the winner and an excellent BAL but a shame JS did not play any extracts from her recording with the BPO/Abbado which I tend to think is more of a library choice than her live recordings - the finale of that Abbado recording has all the requisite snap crackle and pop .

[silvestrione]

Another example of Radio 3 at its best.

And a wonderful concerto.

Just listened to this. A reminder why this is my favourite programme on radio (most weeks). You come away with a heightened, renewed enthusiasm for the work, and for music generally!

[BBMmk2]

A very fine performance chosen as the winner and an excellent BAL but a shame JS did not play any extracts from her recording with the BPO/Abbado which I tend to think is more of a library choice than her live recordings - the finale of that Abbado recording has all the requisite snap crackle and pop .

I am glad this recording won the accolade. How did the Zimmermann fair, any mention at all?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I am glad this recording won the accolade.

It was very good, but (like Barbs) I prefer her with Abbado & the BPO.

How did the Zimmermann fair, any mention at all?

This was very odd - and I may have misheard - but JS mentioned it favourably in comparison with Boulez' recording with Aimard, but he didn't illustrate it with an excerpt. He did, however, illustrate the "inferior" version with Aimard, but not Aimard's playing, only the superb playing of the Cleveland Orchestra. Which he thought was equally fine on the Zimmerman.

I got a bit lost.

[Maclintick]

I've been drawn back to expand a little on EA's wise words: "wonderful concerto". I think it's an extraordinary masterpiece in so many ways. Just take the bitter-sweet "slow" movement. What a risk Ravel took through leaving its exposition to the solo piano. And.. look at the length of that sinuous theme - perhaps 30% of the whole movement. .

Lovely post, Ed. It's a measure of Ravel's genius that he can set himself a conscious technical challenge, in the case of the concerto's adagio assai that of meticulously constructing the longest non-repeating melody in musical history, & yet imbue it with such heart-rending, nostalgic perfection. As you say, the losses of WW1 form the emotional hinterland of this movement, as they do in the Left Hand Concerto, but here the horror emerges gradually & is thrown into painful clarity at the dissonant climax just before fig.6.

Jon Swain's excellent BAL was in radio terms the equivalent of this concerto, brilliantly executed & conceived as a sparkling Saturday morning divertissement -- making us chuckle over our cornflakes, & eliciting the occasional sigh, as well. How about a BAL for it's sinistral companion, JS ?

[Nick Armstrong]

Jon Swain's excellent BAL was in radio terms the equivalent of this concerto, brilliantly executed & conceived as a sparkling Saturday morning divertissement -- making us chuckle over our cornflakes, & eliciting the occasional sigh, as well. How about a BAL for it's sinistral companion, JS ?

[Nick Armstrong]

[Argerich/Kaspszyk] was very good, but (like Barbs) I prefer her with Abbado & the BPO.


This was very odd - and I may have misheard - but JS mentioned [Zimerman/Boulez] favourably in comparison with Boulez' recording with Aimard, but he didn't illustrate it with an excerpt. He did, however, illustrate the "inferior" version with Aimard, but not Aimard's playing, only the superb playing of the Cleveland Orchestra. Which he thought was equally fine on the Zimmerman.

I got a bit lost.

Right then. I just had a longish drive in stop-start traffic in the rain, but I didn't mind (and didn't get lost, ferns!) as I had a bit of a Ravel BaL-Fest.

First I listened to JS's BaL on the concerto as second time. You did mishear, ferney: he did illustrate the Zimerman recording, in the cor anglais passage with filligree piano towards the end of the slow movement. He paid tribute to it as having just that bit more flexibility than the Yundi/Ozawa recording played just before.

Then I listened to 3 recordings of the concerto, one after the other. First that Yundi/Ozawa performance, then the two I've purchased since first hearing BaL: Grosvenor/Judd and Argerich/Kaspszyk.

I sort of wish I'd chosen a different order, with the familiar Yundi version last.

Because after that performance, I found the Grosvenor to be mannered, I'm sorry to say - dextrous, sure, but too much 'love it to death' concentration on details, slowings up - and phrasing in the slow movement which to my ear was sometimes cliché'd and ... immature... Plus I didn't really go for the 'peashooter' trumpet sound from the RLPO soloist.

Argerich also fusses with the phrasing and the tempo, but not in quite the same mannered way - it sounds individual, virtuosic, and done with such panache that one is inclined to forgive it (as one would in a live concert, which it way... but on repeat listening...??) - except in the slow movement which I think was tugged about too much (like Samson François, let it be said) with quite a lot of the staggered left hand - right hand 'style' going back to Mlle. Long.

I'm a bit disappointed with both purchases, at the moment. Less so the Argerich - there's some exhilarating playing in the outer movements. I'd like to hear Benjamin G in 20 years' time tackling this with a top-flight band.

And the Yundi/BPO/Ozawa remains high in my affections! It has such grunt and character, but without messing around with the pulse and the line. And I love the cooler way with the slow movement - JS found the cor anglais passage too inflexible - but in context, with the hypnotic pulse created from the start of the movement, I think it works. The subtlety comes from gradations of touch and dynamic.

I've come to the conclusion that I MUCH prefer that, rather than excessive buggering about with the beat, the pulse. And for me it was a pleasant surprise, as my preconception about the pianist (did the marketing suits not want us just to call him 'Yundi'?) was that he was from the overhyped stable of young stars (not far from the 2Langs stable).

But I think it's refreshingly classy.

Hope someone else hears the Yundi performance and gives their view.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

[COLOR="#0000FF"]You did mishear, ferney: he did illustrate the Zimmerman recording, in the cor anglais passage with filligree piano towards the end of the slow movement. He paid tribute to it as having just that bit more flexibility than the Yundi/Ozawa recording played just before.

Oh, that was Zimerman, was it?! - I remember loving the fluid precision of orchestra and soloist when I heard it, but missed the pianist's name, and thought when he later criticized Aimard's playing that ... well, y;know ...

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