BaL 7.02.15 - Saint-Saëns: Symphony no. 3

[Bryn]

So Barenboim,'s version is chosen and available in two forms, one being remastered. Wouldn't it be good to have a recommendation between them and to know which version is to be played tomorrow.

Mike

Good heavens, is it Sunday already.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I was surprised GN didn't mention the very different noises we heard out of the various Cavaille-Cols that he played side by side as it were. One of them at least was not at all what I wanted to hear: saturated treble 'fizz' and very little weight in the bass The style of presentation at this point meant I didn't really catch which was which, so as to avoid this fizzy one at all costs!

Assuming it wasn't the guilty one I'm almost tempted by the Siecles/ Roth, having really enjoyed hearing their Stravinsky ballets disc this week. Not sure I really need another S-S 3 though. Still, as none of my current three versions (Paray, Fremaux, Mehta) got a mention, and with only the latter on CD, I'm sure I can make a case

[visualnickmos]

I have this version too (Barenboim) and I like it very much.

However, I probably shouldn't say it, but I actually quite liked the "effortful ritardandos" [sic] of Bernstein's recording. As is so often the case with LB, you have to hear the whole thing to put it into its correct concept - and as is so often the case, it never sounds 'wrong' - case in point; his Enigma Variations (BBCSO/DG)

[tigajen]

Eschenbach in 2007 but I dont know who the reviewer was.I have the Munch which I dont believe got a mention.I am very happy to stick with it.

[edashtav]

I was pleased that Barenboim won for its clarity, depth of perception and structural coherence. Les Siècles with François-Xavier Roth astonished me, at times, in much the manner that Norrington's Beethoven symphonies with the LCP once did. The Roth is like a historical research document - there are a 101 ideas for you to consider before you form you ideal interpretation.

[makropulos]

Well, already having the first choice, I have just ordered the Roth père et fils via ebay. Strange though that no mention seems to have been made of the fact that the organ part was conceived not for a Cavaillé-Coll, but, as Andrew Mellor reminds us, "an English-style concert hall organ in London", and that Saint-Saens offered the use of a harmonium as an alternative. So the big sound we are all use to seems to be far from the composer's aim.

Hard to know what S-S had in mind when he composed the symphony since I doubt he knew the organ of St. James's Hall in London (where the premiere took place) that well. I would suspect he may have had a French sound in mind (simply because that was the organ sound he knew). It was done in Paris very soon after the London premiere using a French instrument, with S-S himself at the organ. As for the harmonium option, is that mentioned on S-S's manuscript or was it added by Durand to encourage performances where there was no organ?

According to Rollin Smith's book on Saint-Saëns and the Organ, the instrument from St. James's Hall used for the premiere was moved to High Wycombe Town Hall when St. James's Hall closed in 1905 (Smith also includes a complete spec. for this organ).

Does anybody know if this instrument still in High Wycombe? (I can't find any mention of organ recitals there online).

[johnb]

Eschenbach in 2007 but I dont know who the reviewer was.I have the Munch which I dont believe got a mention.I am very happy to stick with it.

I too have both the Eschenbach and the Munch, together with the Barenboim (LP) and Toscanini.

I'm a little surprised he didn't mention the Eschenbach as it was Chris de Souza's BaL top choice in December 2007. The recording also captures the deep (32 ft ?) organ registers where you feel the sound rather than hear it. Not all recordings do and I always feel slightly cheated by recordings that don't.

I like the Munch but either he or the recording engineer seems to have been allergic to the orchestra playing "p" or "pp".

I'm intrigued by the Roth and will be interested to hear the BAL choice on Monday.

Yan Pascal Tortelier recorded the piece with the Ulster Orchestra. I seem to remember the performance had a distinctly Gallic twang to it and would love to hear it again.

(What ever happened to YP Tortelier? He seems to completely disappeared from the UK after his successful partnership with the BBC Philharmonic.)

[MickyD]

Don't hesitate over the Roth disc, because you also get the fascinating coupling of the 4th Piano Concerto performed by Jean-François Heisser on an 1874 Erard piano. It's a terrific disc.

[ardcarp]

My immediate reaction was to bemoan the fact that an 'artificial' version (i.e. organ and orchestra apart) had been chosen. OTOH, listening to a CD in one's sitting room is 'artificial' and relies on the mixer's art, even for so-called 'recorded live' CDs. Scrabbling through my shelves, I find it's a version I have anyway, and I'd forgotten all about the remoteness of Gaston Litaize!

I enjoyed the review, the only quibble I had with GN being his obsession with the clarity of the four-hands piano bit in Jansen's version, where he claimed (Hoffnung style) 'each note is like a polished diamond'! It's surely written as coloration to the texture, being merely arpeggiated figures, as in a similar bit in The Carnival of the Animals. I'm sure SS didn't mean it to be an 8-bar piano concerto,

[Pulcinella]

their loss

With Alwyn 1 performed in the 2014 Proms (the only one I went to), dare we hope for the others to make an appearance in the not too distant future?

PS: Probably should have replied to EdgeleyRob rather than Roehre; I thought all of Rohre's post would appear as my 'quote'!

[subcontrabass]

According to Rollin Smith's book on Saint-Saëns and the Organ, the instrument from St. James's Hall used for the premiere was moved to High Wycombe Town Hall when St. James's Hall closed in 1905 (Smith also includes a complete spec. for this organ).

Does anybody know if this instrument still in High Wycombe? (I can't find any mention of organ recitals there online).

The original specification is available here: http://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=N09663

The 1921 rebuild is here: http://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=N09664

A specification of what is currently available at the Town Hall does not mention the organ: https://wycombeswan.co.uk/Online/Art...0Review%29.pdf

[makropulos]

The original specification is available here: http://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=N09663

The 1921 reduild is here: http://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=N09664

A specification of what is currently available at the Town Hall does not mention the organ: https://wycombeswan.co.uk/Online/Art...0Review%29.pdf

Thanks very much for this information!

[BBMmk2]

Ofcourse, I think the last movement, I find especially a wow factor, for me. If you ever hear atop brass band play this with organ, like Black Dyke Band, then your onto a certain winner! :) Imagine this with Black Dyke and a Cavaille-Coll organ combined!!!

[Ferretfancy]

It did seem a little odd that the Barenboim performance was only mentioned once during the programme, but ended up as first choice.

I was struck by the harsh and ugly sounds that most of the organs made, all of them were far removed from the experience we would have in the hall.As is so often the case, early examples of the quiet opening of the piece sounded impossibly remote, although this was rectified later in the programme. The presenter seemed to attach great importance to a few bars of rippling piano, a nice moment certainly, but he did make rather a thing of it,

One version that seems to have disappeared is the CBSO performance conducted by Louis Fremaux, a beautiful performance IMHO. It was one of EMI's more successful quadraphonic discs, and still sounds well in 2 channel stereo. Of the half dozen versions I have, my firm favourite is the Boston / Munch, a sensation in its day but presumably Norris felt it was too far back to qualify.

[tigajen]

my firm favourite is the Boston / Munch, a sensation in its day but presumably Norris felt it was too far back to qualify.[/QUOTE]