BaL 31.01.15 - Beethoven: Symphony no. 3 in E flat "Eroica"

[Don Petter]

Then again, I loved the resounding drubbing with a wooden spoon administered to Thielemann

I also seem to remember a Haitink excerpt which was completely soporific. Not sure which of his versions this was.

[Alison]

Probably the slower Concertgebouw one. I didn't want the LSO excerpt to end though.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Probably the slower Concertgebouw one. I didn't want the LSO excerpt to end though.

Yes - NK used the CO recording in immediate juxtapositioning with the LSO to demonstrate how even a "traditional" conductor has been inspired by HIPP to reconsider his approach to the work.

He could also have used Abbado's VPO and BPO recordings, but for some reason he didn't think much of the first two movements of the latter.

[Alison]

Yes a few more specifics on that later Abbado version wouldn't have gone amiss.

[Daniel]

... this splendid film.

I assume that the musicians we see in the film are in fact musicians of the OR&R...? The credits give no other indication. If so, the film is all the more impressive.

I found the idea of a piece of music being (in a way) the central character, intriguing. Listened to/watched in this way the Eroica seemed (amongst many other things) like a soundtrack that had reared up and taken over the lives of the characters.
I may be wrong but I also assumed that the orchestral players were all OR&R, apart obviously from LVB's horn playing companion.

Sorry to linger in off topic territory, I didn't listen to the BAL, but lurking there a little longer, I'll just add that I still remember with great fondness a performance of the Eroica, given by Robin Ticciati and the SCO at the 2013 Proms.

[Roehre]

I found the idea of a piece of music being (in a way) the central character, intriguing. Listened to/watched in this way the Eroica seemed (amongst many other things) like a soundtrack that had reared up and taken over the lives of the characters.
I may be wrong but I also assumed that the orchestral players were all OR&R, apart obviously from LVB's horn playing companion.....

The whole of the orchestra are musicians from the OR&R, as credited at the end of the DVD

[Barbirollians]

I was surprised that despite eulogising about it he did not play any of the Marcia Funebre from Chailly - frankly when I heard an extract on CD Review I laughed . It was so jaunty it sounded like the classical music version of ding dong the witch is dead . Harnoncourt's also sounded shallow and pretty much like someone who had gone to the funeral out of duty rather than as a mourner.

Disappointing also that not only did he ignore Krivine but also Bruggen's second set on Glossa .

[Beef Oven!]

I have to say I was disappointed with this one. Not the final decision, but the journey there. All Kenyon did was play an excerpt and then tell us whether he liked it or not. At no point did he ever say anything about the symphony itself. There was no overall vision or understanding. Everything was constantly referred to this or that interpretative fashion. He didn't even address the issue of structure: how the thing fits together. A newcomer listening to this wouldn't learn a single thing about the symphony: it's place in the canon, its peculiar pattern of movements etc All they would learn would be what Kenyon personally enjoyed.

Everything comes back to taste at some point, but not once did he offer any other rationale for his choices. I remember an excellent Beethoven 6 BAL (John Deathridge, I think) in which reasons were given for each decision - and not just that the presenter liked them that way. He had a particular understanding of the symphony and this was used to anchor the verdicts as we went along. It all made sense, even if you disagreed. With Kenyon, all we had was I like this (because it is fast), I don't like this (because I like it fast) etc.

I didn't find him snivelling or sneering, as some did, but I did think he was a little presumptuous in places. He kept referring to "our" tastes, as if we all happened to agree with him. At one point, he even referred to "our" generation(!). The idea seemed to be that all of us had moved beyond the mistakes of history. We'd been through the embarrassing Karajan phase (a bit like sleeping with a colleague after a boozy office party), and now we all liked things just the same way he did.

I think you've summed up this Bal very well.

[makropulos]

Disappointing also that not only did he ignore Krivine but also Bruggen's second set on Glossa .

Agree about Krivine, though if Presto is to be believed (and the fact that the CDs are "temporarily out of stock" at amazon in both the UK and France), it may only be available as a download now. That may be why it wasn't mentioned (given that there are so many versions that are readily available).

Brüggen's Glossa Eroica was a big disappointment to me. It's recorded in a cavernous acoustic and is - to my ears - nowhere near as good as the earlier one.

I think it's a bit harsh to say that NK "ignored" these versions - and many dozens of others too. The question has to be how could they have been fitted in to the time available (and discussed in any meaningful way)?

[Bryn]

Agree about Krivine, though if Presto is to be believed (and the fact that the CDs are "temporarily out of stock" at amazon in both the UK and France), it may only be available as a download now. That may be why it wasn't mentioned (given that there are so many versions that are readily available).

The Naïve site is no help either. It reports as being under maintenance.

[richardfinegold]

Agree about Krivine, though if Presto is to be believed (and the fact that the CDs are "temporarily out of stock" at amazon in both the UK and France), it may only be available as a download now. That may be why it wasn't mentioned (given that there are so many versions that are readily available).

Brüggen's Glossa Eroica was a big disappointment to me. It's recorded in a cavernous acoustic and is - to my ears - nowhere near as good as the earlier one.

I think it's a bit harsh to say that NK "ignored" these versions - and many dozens of others too. The question has to be how could they have been fitted in to the time available (and discussed in any meaningful way)?

I have Krivine saved as a playlist in Spotify

[Dave2002]

The Naïve site is no help either. It reports as being under maintenance.

You pushed me into putting in an order at Am UK - where the set is said to be temporarily unavailable. Let's hope that is correct, as I don't want downloads if I can avoid them - though not everyone agrees. As Richard has pointed out, the set is available for streaming from Spotify - http://open.spotify.com/album/6XvJvp2i2KBRDtdgfUwjwR

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I didn't find him snivelling or sneering, as some did, but I did think he was a little presumptuous in places. He kept referring to "our" tastes, as if we all happened to agree with him. At one point, he even referred to "our" generation(!). The idea seemed to be that all of us had moved beyond the mistakes of history. We'd been through the embarrassing Karajan phase (a bit like sleeping with a colleague after a boozy office party), and now we all liked things just the same way he did.

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

[Dave2002]

... ah, embracing mistakes. I remember them - but I was young at the time...

I wish I'd had more of them - whether mistakenly or not .... I was also young once!

[Bryn]

You pushed me into putting in an order at Am UK - where the set is said to be temporarily unavailable. Let's hope that is correct, as I don't want downloads if I can avoid them - though not everyone agrees. As Richard has pointed out, the set is available for streaming from Spotify - http://open.spotify.com/album/6XvJvp2i2KBRDtdgfUwjwR

O.k., I know you like to avoid downloads but it is worth mentioning that Qobuz have lossless CD quality downloads of the set (including digital booklet notes) for €19.99.