BaL 3.01.15 - Palestrina: Missa Papae Marcelli

[ardcarp]

I like the way the Sixteen do Palestrina too. Papae Marcelli is so well known, mainly for historic reasons I suppose, but old Giovanni did churn out quite a lot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Giovanni_Pierluigi_da_Palestrina#Masses

...and I'd be hard pushed to choose 'a favourite' from that lot (and that's just the ones we know about).

[chrisjstanley]

For boys on the top line then Westminster Cathedral Choir is probably tops. Any recording with the final Agnus Dei at around 40 or 45 bpm does it for me!!

For others then Peter Phillips and the Tallis singers are really very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRfF7W4El60

bws
Chris S

[doversoul1]

9.30 today.
Very much looking forward to it.

[Keraulophone]

Ms Gill has given us the choicest, most succulent BaL of the year... and the next. ☺

[Don Petter]

Ms Gill has given us the choicest, most succulent BaL of the year... and the next. ☺

I enjoyed it, though sometimes thought she was on the edge of trying to be too clever, throwing in a few Brussels sprouts, etc.

Anyway, she's made me just go and order the Pro Cantione Antiqua box, as I found them the most involving.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Ms Gill has given us the choicest, most succulent BaL of the year... and the next. ☺

Superb BaL - the sort of detached passion that I was only thinking of the other day with regard to Michael Kennedy; and exactly the right tone for Palestrina. I hope she gets more to do.

Not sure I entirely agree with her ideas about the work - like DP, I have highest regard for Pro Cantione Antiqua - but these were based entirely on study of the score and its history. AND she's saved me a bit of cash - I already have her two finalists!

[BBMmk2]

Superb BaL - the sort of detached passion that I was only thinking of the other day with regard to Michael Kennedy; and exactly the right tone for Palestrina. I hope she gets more to do.

Not sure I entirely agree with her ideas about the work - like DP, I have highest regard for Pro Cantione Antiqua - but these were based entirely on study of the score and its history. AND she's saved me a bit of cash - I already have her two finalists!

Which were? :)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Which were? :)

The laurels went to Jeremy Summerly with the Oxford Camerata on NAXOS:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palestrina-Marcelli-Aeterna-Camerata-Summerly/dp/B0000013U7/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1420288047&sr=1-2&keywords=naxos%2C+palestrina

With the Tallis Scholars as "runners-up":

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Allegri-Miserere-Palestrina-Marcelli-Stabat/dp/B000LXHFWC/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1420288138&sr=1-5&keywords=palestrina%2C+tallis+scholars

(She spoke highly of The Sixteen and Hill/Westminster, too.)

[Black Swan]

I enjoyed the BAL as well. I have the Tallis Scholars. I am considering the Jeremy Summerly with Oxford Camerarta and also the Westminster Choir. I would like to hear this performed with boys on the top line.

All in all a very enjoyable BAL.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

All in all a very enjoyable BAL.

Yes - and I liked the way she didn't shirk away from the "Palestrina is boring" idea, but confronted and refuted it very well. Made me want to listen to more Palestrina - I think that PCA boxed set is going to get a little more attention than I'd thought before today's programme: many thanks, Ms Gill.

[Karafan]

Any BaL which references My Old Man's a Dustman gets my vote!

[BBMmk2]

Thanks Ferney(two messages back or so), for the information on runners and riders for this BaL. Despite having the knowledge of who "won", it be well worth hearing.

[Nick Armstrong]

Despite having the knowledge of who "won", it be well worth hearing.

Isn't that the normal state of affairs for you, Bbm? There's usually a 'who won?' from you on this thread, I assumed you liked to know first, and that you didn't like the tension of not knowing whodunit when you listened to a BAL!

Ms Gill has given us the choicest, most succulent BaL of the year... and the next. ☺

I started to listen today but was interrupted - I'll return to it as it's fascinating to hear different approaches to this music closely compared.

However, I got stuck with one thing Ms Gill said - I listened 3 or 4 times without understanding. I think there may be a bad edit, as the words themselves don't make sense to me. I've transcribed the section below - it was between the 2nd and 3rd extracts she played. After Pro Cantione Antiqua’s 1987 performance, she said:

“This recording is also sung at the lower pitch most commonly associated with music written in Rome at that time. Although a vast proportion of performances of this piece are produced at that higher pitch, or somewhere in between - it needs to be, otherwise you can’t use trebles or sopranos - it can be hard to commit to performances that aren’t as true as possible to its origins. That’s not supposed to be the perspective of a performance practice prig, it’s simply that the devil lies in its detail without which it’s transformed from a piece of musical transcendence into something less special. I have many self-imposed rules for this piece, but in the end the pitch isn’t one of them. The diaphanous quality of a higher-pitch pure top line for me only enhances the clarity and simplicity of the polyphony, which is a good thing, and besides it rules out far too many of the best recordings, like the first of several the Tallis Scholars have released, the iconic 1980 version”

I think the problem lies in the words I've highlighted in bold. What 'higher pitch' is she talking about - she's just been speaking about the 'original' lower pitch. Writing it out has clarified it, as a matter of fact. It's not a big thing - I think the problem is just the word "that" ... it makes sense if you substitute "a" ... so, "a vast proportion of performances of this piece are produced at a higher pitch, or somewhere in between"

Incidentally, it would have been easier to spot the 'Homme Armé' influence being brought out in the Pro Cantione Antiqua version had Ms Gill done some David Owen Norris-style singing - I couldn't hear it from the initial extract of the tune itself which she played. Could anyone else?

Looking forward to completing my listening.

[Don Petter]

The seemingly illogical passage threw me at the time, but I just assumed it was me being thick. I think you are right that that 'that' should be an 'a'.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Reply - yes it does seem a little odd; when I heard it yesterday. I'd thought she must have said "at a higher pitch" (and even then, "or something in between" becomes awkward") but listening again, it's very clear that she says "that":

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04wm1nq

(at around the 40 min point). She might have just tripped, but it's almost as if there has been a tape edit cutting out a phrase from the end of the previous sentence ("This recording is also sung at the lower pitch most commonly associated with music written in Rome at that time, rather than the higher pitch of the Hagersten Motet Choir that we've just heard.", or some such.