BaL 3.01.15 - Palestrina: Missa Papae Marcelli

[umslopogaas]

I have two versions of this work on LP, neither of which are on the list, so presumably have not been transferred to CD:

- Vienna Akademie Kammerchor cond. Gunther Theuring (Westminster XWN 18364, mono, 1956)

- Choir of St. Hedwig's Cathedral, Berlin, cond. Karl Forster (HMV ASD 569, 1959)

The name of Karl Forster rings a distant bell, but I've never otherwise heard of Gunther Theuring. Anyone know of any other recordings by him?

They would have given the missing 'continental, perspective mentioned above, but I expect would have been dismissed as too old fashioned.

[visualnickmos]

I do suppose you don't like Bach's motets, Beethoven's Missa solemnis, Bruckner's motets, Brahms' Motets opp.29 and 74, Reger's Motets op.110, Schönberg's choral works, Webern's ditto, Maxwell Davies' symphonies e.g. either?
All these show the influence of those "early" works you avoid like the plague.
Open your ears and a wonderful other world of music opens your heart eventually.

The works underlined, I absolutely love; the others you mention, I have yet to explore. I will certainly do that, and I'm looking forward to so doing.

And "Open your ears and a wonderful other world of music opens your heart eventually." Who can resist such a beautifully worded invitation? I'm there.....

Strangely, if you have a look at what "I am listening to at the moment" you may be surprised.......?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If you love Webern, this might be as good a place to start as any, visnik:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44NXBsyJ7A4

[visualnickmos]

Thank you. I feel that a door has been opened for me..... now to explore.

[Roehre]

I have two versions of this work on LP, neither of which are on the list, so presumably have not been transferred to CD:

- Vienna Akademie Kammerchor cond. Gunther Theuring (Westminster XWN 18364, mono, 1956)

- Choir of St. Hedwig's Cathedral, Berlin, cond. Karl Forster (HMV ASD 569, 1959)

The name of Karl Forster rings a distant bell, but I've never otherwise heard of Gunther Theuring. Anyone know of any other recordings by him?

They would have given the missing 'continental, perspective mentioned above, but I expect would have been dismissed as too old fashioned.

Both approach the Mass in the then still prevalent (but now old-fashioned) "romantic" manner, both based on less reliable editions of the score. A bit like Bach before the (for those days) "lean" Richter, and with HIPP (more or less beginning with Deller e.g.) only at some distance at the horizon.

[Keraulophone]

Sacred masterworks such as the Missa PM only started to work their magic for me when I was fortunate enough to be able to sing them regularly within an appropriate liturgical context, in a cathedral choir of boys and men. Even after 26 years in the back row, the tolling bell effect at the beginning of the Sanctus of the MPM raises the hairs on my neck. Listening to a CD of (even) a very fine recording doesn't have nearly the same impact. Understandably, such a discrepancy doesn't feel so marked when comparing live concert-hall listening to playing a recording at home (on sufficiently good equipment).

[Simon Biazeck]

0930
Building a Library
Caroline Gill compares recordings of Palestrina's most well-known and most often-performed mass, his Missa Papae Marcelli, and makes a personal recommendation.

Available versions:

Pro Cantione Antiqua, Mark Brown
The Sixteen, Harry Christophers
Odhecaton, Paolo da Col
Opus Vocale, Volker Hedtfeld
Westminster Abbey Choir, David Hill (BaL choice 2001)
Netherlands Chamber Choir, Risto Joost
Voices of Ascension, Dennis Keene
Hagersten Motet Choir, Ingemar Mansson (download)
Tallis Scholars, Peter Phillips (2 versions)
Tallis Scholars, Peter Phillips (DVD)
Choir of Westminster Abbey, Simon Preston
Regensburger Domspatzen, Georg Ratzinger
Ensemble Officium, Wilfried Rombach
Oxford Camarata, Jeremy Summerly
Choir of King's College Cambridge, Sir David Willcocks

Should read: Westminster Cathedral Choir, David Hill

[hedgehog]

What; you mean, "cheating"? :winkeye .

I had no trouble with counterpoint ferney, usually top of the class, I just preferred it when we were allowed to embed it into stylistic exercises (which wasn't exactly "free" either, but more interesting to me). Thus, getting back to Palestrina not as interesting as others to me stylistically. That holds for Fux's music as well ( for me), what I've heard of it.

I'm sure one day I'll wake up and find all has changed and that I'll want to listen to Bruckner as well!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Should read: Westminster Cathedral Choir, David Hill

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Palestrina not as interesting as others to me stylistically. That holds for Fux's music as well ( for me), what I've heard of it.

Yes - Victoria has always seemed a more sensuous composer, but there is a coolness to Palestrina that has its own attractions. (And when look at the scores, I do wonder if it might benefit from a more "earthy" performing style - but I'm not exactly sure how, if that makes sense?) I agree about Fux - I don't know very much of it, but from that limited experience, I do think that Gradus ad Parnassum is his masterpiece.

I'm sure one day I'll wake up and find all has changed and that I'll want to listen to Bruckner as well!

[ardcarp]

but there is a coolness to Palestrina that has its own attractions.

I wonder how much the 'coolness' is attributable to the way people and (some) performers have come to think of it? It is perfectly possible to put some Passion into Palestrina, and it will be interesting to see which side of the fence the reviewer lands on.

[Roehre]

I wonder how much the 'coolness' is attributable to the way people and (some) performers have come to think of it? It is perfectly possible to put some Passion into Palestrina, and it will be interesting to see which side of the fence the reviewer lands on.

I'd love to have Palestrina sung by Ensemble organum/Perés

[jean]

Michael Howard's interpretation of Super flumina Babylonis with the Renaissance Singers was legendary.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I wonder how much the 'coolness' is attributable to the way people and (some) performers have come to think of it? It is perfectly possible to put some Passion into Palestrina, and it will be interesting to see which side of the fence the reviewer lands on.

[BBMmk2]

Another great list from EA. I look forward to this as this is one of my favourite works by Palestrina. I have the Tallis Scholars and choir of King's College recordings.

I agree BS! This is possibly my favourite Palestrina work. I have the earlier Tallis Scholars and also The Sixteen. Two choirs I am great fans of, especially The Sixteen. I have seen The Sixteen, three times now.Once at the school where I work and Worth Abbey, Turners Hill West Sussex(near where I live).