BaL 3.01.15 - Palestrina: Missa Papae Marcelli

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

0930
Building a Library
Caroline Gill compares recordings of Palestrina's most well-known and most often-performed mass, his Missa Papae Marcelli, and makes a personal recommendation.

Available versions:

Pro Cantione Antiqua, Mark Brown
The Sixteen, Harry Christophers
Odhecaton, Paolo da Col
Opus Vocale, Volker Hedtfeld
Westminster Cathedral Choir, David Hill (BaL choice 2001)
Netherlands Chamber Choir, Risto Joost
Voices of Ascension, Dennis Keene
Hagersten Motet Choir, Ingemar Mansson (download)
Tallis Scholars, Peter Phillips (2 versions)
Tallis Scholars, Peter Phillips (DVD)
Choir of Westminster Abbey, Simon Preston
Regensburger Domspatzen, Georg Ratzinger
Ensemble Officium, Wilfried Rombach
Oxford Camarata, Jeremy Summerly
Choir of King's College Cambridge, Sir David Willcocks

[Black Swan]

Another great list from EA. I look forward to this as this is one of my favourite works by Palestrina. I have the Tallis Scholars and choir of King's College recordings.

[Roehre]

Many thanks EA

There is however something weird about this list: an internationally well recognized master piece (especially also following the Flemish polyphonic tradition) with 15 (available) recordings of which more than half British/English?
Where are the other continental performers (Belgian, Italian, French, Dutch and German)?
Haven't they recorded the work at all??

At least my favourites, Pro Cantione antiqua (one of the oldest recordings presently available I think), the Netherlands Chamber Choir (IMO the most sonorous) and The Sixteen (the rhythmically most flexible I think) have been listed....

At least no performances during which bombs are dropped, differences between 1951 and 1955 recordings , super egos or other distractions drawing away the attention of the quality and internal strength of the music itself....
[though there exist different editions of this mass ]

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes - I have Pro Cantione Antiqua, Oxford Camerata, and the Tallis Scholars; all very beautiful - but I'd be interested in hearing the recordings by the non-British ensembles. A pity Capella Augustana haven't recorded it.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

When you think about it, we do have some of the best choirs in the world on our owm doorstep.

[Roehre]

When you think about it, we do have some of the best choirs in the world on our own doorstep.

Certainly true

[visualnickmos]

This is one BaL I will avoid like the plague.

I can't abide early stuff like this. Like paintings of the same period - no thank you, sir!

[JFLL]

Strangely enough, for one not over-enamoured of music of that period, I have three versions – The Sixteen/Christophers, Oxford Camerata/Summerly and an LP of that interesting one with Georg Ratzinger and the Regensburg Domspatzen ('Cathedral Sparrows' for BBM's benefit ). I wonder whether Ratzinger had an inkling, when celebrating this Renaissance Pope, that his own younger brother would one day become pontiff, reigning for far longer than the three weeks of poor Marcellus?

[Roehre]

This is one BaL I will avoid like the plague.

I can't abide early stuff like this. Like paintings of the same period - no thank you, sir!

I do suppose you don't like Bach's motets, Beethoven's Missa solemnis, Bruckner's motets, Brahms' Motets opp.29 and 74, Reger's Motets op.110, Schönberg's choral works, Webern's ditto, Maxwell Davies' symphonies e.g. either?
All these show the influence of those "early" works you avoid like the plague.
Open your ears and a wonderful other world of music opens your heart eventually.

[Roehre]

Strangely enough, for one not over-enamoured of music of that period, I have three versions – The Sixteen/Christophers, Oxford Camerata/Summerly and an LP of that interesting one with Georg Ratzinger and the Regensburg Domspatzen ('Cathedral Sparrows' for BBM's benefit ). I wonder whether Ratzinger had an inkling, when celebrating this Renaissance Pope, that his own elder brother would one day become pontiff, reigning for far longer than the three weeks of poor Marcellus?

the Ratzinger, how lovely it may sound, shows how until quite recently this music was treated: as a minor JSBach.
His specific use of youngsters' voices and of an early 20C not anymore-up-to-scratch edition of the work rules it out to be a contender in this BaL IMO, but is certainly a recording worth having, if only as demonstration how our appreciation of Palestrina has changed say the last forty years or so.
Benedictus XVI is said to be fond of this interpretation, btw.

[hedgehog]

Well I'll listen to this - perhaps I'll gain some insights into Palestrina. I have an abiding love for Early and Renaissance music, but I have never been really, engaged by Palestrina's music. It is quite possibly due to a curmudgeonly streak against strict and dessicatedly imposed rules in counterpoint, Fux etc ( but I loved writing HIP counterpoint exercises as long as I was given a bit of freedom!). Still, Palestrina seems all a little too smooth for me - any recommendations to show otherwise?

[Roehre]

Well I'll listen to this - perhaps I'll gain some insights into Palestrina. I have an abiding love for Early and Renaissance music, but I have never been really, engaged by Palestrina's music. It is quite possibly due to a curmudgeonly streak against strict and dessicatedly imposed rules in counterpoint, Fux etc ( but I loved writing HIP counterpoint exercises as long as I was given a bit of freedom!). Still, Palestrina seems all a little too smooth for me - any recommendations to show otherwise?

A "problem" with Palestrina (and for that matter: Victoria) is, that not non-sacred works of theirs (if composed) have survived.
For a less "smooth" Palestrina it might be an idea to taste bit by bit his Lamentationes (especially for Holy Saturday). Pro Cantione antiqua's version for these recommended.

the contrast and the interaction between sacred and profane is such a delight in the works of Monteverdi and Sweelinck - after Palestrina-, or Josquin DesPrez - before Palestrina.

[hedgehog]

A "problem" with Palestrina (and for that matter: Victoria) is, that not non-sacred works of theirs (if composed) have survived.
For a less "smooth" Palestrina it might be an idea to taste bit by bit his Lamentationes (especially for Holy Saturday). Pro Cantione antiqua's version for these recommended.

the contrast and the interaction between sacred and profane is such a delight in the works of Monteverdi and Sweelinck - after Palestrina-, or Josquin DesPrez - before Palestrina.

Thanks Roehre, I'll look into the Lamentiones

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

strict and dessicatedly imposed rules in counterpoint, Fux etc

Oh, surely not Fux! He's wonderful, the way he takes the persona of a not-very-bright student whose mistakes are patiently corrected by Palestrina. Species Counterpoint (or, as Babbitt called it, "Endangered Species Counterpoint") is a liberating game, empowering the imagination, not limiting it - and essential for the understanding of Musics from the Western Classical Traditions until Schoenberg at the very least, of course.

( but I loved writing HIP counterpoint exercises as long as I was given a bit of freedom!)

What; you mean, "cheating"?

Still, Palestrina seems all a little too smooth for me - any recommendations to show otherwise?

Yes - that is partly why I am interested in a non-British recording; those wonderful British choral forces do tend to make Palestrina sound rather homogeneously smooth and a bit "samey" to me, which doesn't fit with the personality ascribed to him by Fux. And yet I don't have such a problem with their performances of Victoria (who seems [perhaps as a result?] a much more astonishing composer composer to me) - I'd like to hear Palestrina with a bit of "grain" in the texture.

[jean]

A "problem" with Palestrina...is, that not non-sacred works...(if composed) have survived...

Palestrina's settings of words from the Song of Songs are perhaps a little less smooth?