BaL 27.12.14 - Schubert: Symphony no. 8 in B minor

[Don Petter]

OMG, I've just discovered I don't own a single CD recording of the 8th (unless one's lurking somewhere on a BBC MM filed under its coupling...).

BBC MM 136 has it with the BBC Philharmonic, conducted by Gunther Herbig, the coupling being the Eroica (cond. Stephen Kovacevich)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I think there are probably quite enough already, and forgive me if these are in there somewhere, but these three of the recordings that I have still seem to be available:

RPO, Beecham (download)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-L-Symphony-Schubert-Unfinished/dp/B0055YMU54

Philharmonia Hungarica, Maag

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Schubert-Symphonies-Philharmonia-Hungarica/dp/B00005NURA

Concertgebouw, Mengelberg
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Andromeda/ANDRCD9109

The Mengelberg is there already, just below the Menuhin, but I can see what caused the confusion: Muti is out of place alphabetically.

[visualnickmos]

I'm very happy with Kertesz on Decca. A great little box-set bargain. Beautifully performed and very well recorded.

[richardfinegold]

As an oboist maybe you could turn your critical faculties towards to 2 Cleveland/ Szell recordings and tell us what you think about those crucial oboe solos in the 2nd movement?
It seems perfectly clear from the Szell/ Cleveland history and chronology that Szell adored the Viennese orchestral sound, in particular insisting that the Cleveland Orchestra horns should use the USA-made 'Conn 8D' horns as being the most 'similar to Viennese' horns in sound ( although of course being 'German-style' instruments).
Regarding his Cleveland oboe players, he had at that time ( before he sacked him at 1 minutes's notice!) the almost beatific 1st oboist MARC LIFSCHEY whose sound with its rather 'tight and restrained ' vibrato can be heard on many Cleveland Orchestra recordings in the late 1950s to early 1960s .

As a devoted Szell fan, I hope that you will share the story of the sacking of the first oboe with us.

[richardfinegold]

I find I also have:

Putbus Festival Orchestra/Keitel (Arte Nova) and CSO/Reiner (RCA)

The Keitel is OK, lightweight but surprisingly slow in the first movement, not really a contender imo. I haven't listened to the Reiner for years, but I recall that it is not quite as impressive as the excellent Beethoven 5 coupling.

I used to have the Reiner on a budget lp, coupled with Schubert's 5th. I remember falling in love with the 5th, with which I had not been previously acquainted, and never playing that recording of the Unfinished.

[richardfinegold]

OMG, I've just discovered I don't own a single CD recording of the 8th (unless one's lurking somewhere on a BBC MM filed under its coupling...).

Still, I might remain content with Kertesz, Marriner and Kubelik (EMI) on LP...

...and Wood and Goossens on 78s

[LMP does wish it to be noted that he doesn't quite date back to the 78 era: his collection of same came to him from his grandfather (inc. the Wood) or via s/h shops and donations]

My first acquaintance with Beethoven's 9th was on 78s of Koussevitsky and the Boston SO. In 1974 all the turntables had 78 rpm settings, but I think they stopped including them soon afterwards.

[JFLL]

I wonder whether anything will be said of the 'completion' by Brian Newbould, as on the Mackerras/OAE disc, and possibly others (Marriner?) for aught I know.

[Roehre]

I wonder whether anything will be said of the 'completion' by Brian Newbould, as on the Mackerras/OAE disc, and possibly others (Marriner?) for aught I know.

Marriner/ASMF was AFAIK the first to record the Newbould (IIRC 1986), which was also used by Mackerras/OAE.

Buffalo PO/JoAnn Falletta uses an adaptation of the Newbould by Mario Venzago.

Not mentioned in the list, but there exists a recording by Peter Gülke (Dresden Staatskapelle?) of his own realisation.

[tigajen]

My first acquaintance with this work was on 78s.but I cant remember who played it! Probably thats why!

[Karafan]

Anyone else care for the darkly-hued Krips' account from 1969, recorded in the Sofiensaal with the VPO on Decca? Great reading (though I cannot escape a personal detestation for the man given that he was later revealed to be the conductor who behaved so abominably in Culshaw's "Putting the Record Straight").

K.

[Petrushka]

My first acquaintance with this work was on 78s.but I cant remember who played it! Probably thats why!

Strangely enough, my first acquaintance with the Schubert 8 was via 78s purchased from an antique shop in 1975 and I still have them but nothing to play them on.. Bruno Walter conducting the Vienna Philharmonic on HMV. Perhaps some enthusiast will tell me they are worth a fortune (but doubt it)?

[tigajen]

Anyone else care for the darkly-hued Krips' account from 1969, recorded in the Sofiensaal with the VPO on Decca? Great reading (though I cannot escape a personal detestation for the man given that he was later revealed to be the conductor who behaved so abominably in Culshaw's "Putting the Record Straight").

K.

Yes I have that one coupled with a wonderful No9 on Eloquence

[Beef Oven!]

Strangely enough, my first acquaintance with the Schubert 8 was via 78s purchased from an antique shop in 1975 and I still have them but nothing to play them on.. Bruno Walter conducting the Vienna Philharmonic on HMV. Perhaps some enthusiast will tell me they are worth a fortune (but doubt it)?

My first acquaintance with Schubert 8 was with Gunter Wand Cologne Radio Symphony Orchestra on RCA/Sony.

And coincidently the first time I attended a concert of Schubert 8 was again with Gunter Wand conducting in London in 1991 (?).

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I wonder whether anything will be said of the 'completion' by Brian Newbould, as on the Mackerras/OAE disc, and possibly others (Marriner?) for aught I know.

There isn't very much difference between the Abraham and Newbould completions. Both use the B minor Rosamunde Entr'acte as the finale; the biggest difference in the 3rd movement is in the second section of the Trio. Many people disapprove of completions like this, but imagine if the last two movements of Beethoven's 7th were missing, and then someone found the sketches for them and completed them; many would then say it was better to leave the work ending with the great A minor movement, rather than shattering the effect with an F major scherzo.

[Tony Halstead]

As a devoted Szell fan, I hope that you will share the story of the sacking of the first oboe with us.

Unfortunately the book that tells the story of that day is currently in storage since we moved house a few weeks ago... as a Szell fan maybe you should consider buying the book - currently available via the 'River People'
on

http://www.amazon.com/The-Cleveland-Orchestra-Story-Second/dp/1886228248

From memory, (although I may be wrong) l I think the incident was something like ( Szell and Lifschey having been 'at loggerheads' for some time) Szell's dissatisfaction at a rehearsal with the intonation of the orchestra's woodwind section, and perhaps Lifschey 'piped up' or dared to question or contradict the Maestro's words...?
What I do remember from the book was that George Szell in a rage, at a rehearsal, said to his wonderful 1st oboe:
"Marc - you may leave the Cleveland Orchestra"

which of course Mr Lifschey did, immediately!
There was clearly no point in arguing against such tyranny.
His successor was John Mack.

The very nice outcome of all this was that, as far as I know, Marc Lifschey put the Cleveland Orchestra well and truly behind him and went to San Francisco where he was welcomed with open arms and played primarily with the opera orchestra there to the end of his days.
NB If I have got that wrong, please could somebody correct me?
NNB I am NOT 'anti-Szell' - far from it - I own on CD pretty well every Szell recording that was ever made! Also, as a horn player I was lucky enough to have several lessons with Szell's principal horn player Myron Bloom after he left Cleveland and then played in Barenboim's 'L'Orchestre de Paris' 1976-approx 1989