BaL 29.11.14 - Schumann: Symphony no. 2

[teamsaint]

Got yer Schumann Minced Morsels muddled up Ammy?

I find that with certain other reviewers, but find RW's gravelly introductions fine, or at least I did earlier.

"Gravelly Introductions....."If John Adams doesn't use that as a title, he'll have missed a trick.


oops, sorry, off topic.

I enjoyed this BaL AND, just as much, the board discussion, and the various suggestions, especially the Sinopoli/VPO.

Just confused now, but I picked up the Kubelik for a song in the process, so no real harm done, looking forward to a good listen to that.

[Barbirollians]

I have never heard drastic pronounced drarstic before !

I agree about the danger of short extracts the YNS from the first movement sounded dreadfully hectoring .

[mathias broucek]

I agree about the danger of short extracts .....

My wife was half listening to this with me. She was a pro musician for 25 years and her ear is otherwordly

She HATED the opening from Sawallisch because the wind chords weren't **quite in tune** (although I didn't notice until she drew my attention to it) but she LOVED the SKD strings in the slow movement and went around singing the big tune for the rest of the day

The point is, any recording can sound brilliant in places and terrible in others. I liked some of the JEG but the finale was hectoring and driven to my ear,

[cloughie]

My wife was half listening to this with me. She was a pro musician for 25 years and her ear is otherwordly

She HATED the opening from Sawallisch because the wind chords weren't **quite in tune** (although I didn't notice until she drew my attention to it) but she LOVED the SKD strings in the slow movement and went around singing the big tune for the rest of the day

The point is, any recording can sound brilliant in places and terrible in others. I liked some of the JEG but the finale was hectoring and driven to my ear,

Caught the end of the JEG today - The timps at the end were feeble!

prompted me to listen to Solti, BPO/Kubelikand Skroweaczewski - All 3 TICK MY BOXES!

[kea]

Caught the end of the JEG today - The timps at the end were feeble!

That's another reason to recommend Ticciati/SCO: a timpanist who actually plays the instrument instead of gently tapping it

Actually the cycle I'm now curious about is Heinz Holliger's, which I think Simon Howard recommended back in the day—'a great composer conducting a great composer' as he put it. Holliger's own compositions have the closest affinity with Schumann's I've heard from any composer since about... Debussy perhaps? His cycle will get onto the Qobuz playlist sometime soon.

[Nick Armstrong]

the cycle I'm now curious about is Heinz Holliger's

...

Holliger's own compositions have the closest affinity with Schumann's I've heard from any composer since about... Debussy perhaps?

That's interesting kea, do please post your reactions to the Holliger No 2. As mentioned upthread, I happened to record it onto the bedside DAB SD-card and have hence listened a lot when live radio became intolerable. It's clean and energetic and - well, fine!

I'd be interested to know a bit more of your thoughts about Holliger's compositions having affinities with Schumann's - not that I disagree, just that I'm totally ignorant!

[aeolium]

My wife was half listening to this with me. She was a pro musician for 25 years and her ear is otherwordly

She HATED the opening from Sawallisch because the wind chords weren't **quite in tune** (although I didn't notice until she drew my attention to it) but she LOVED the SKD strings in the slow movement and went around singing the big tune for the rest of the day

The point is, any recording can sound brilliant in places and terrible in others. I liked some of the JEG but the finale was hectoring and driven to my ear,

Well, I haven't noticed that problem with the Sawallisch introduction before (and presumably Richard Wigmore didn't either, as he approvingly quoted an extract from that recording at the start)!

I thought this was an interesting survey in which RW acknowledged the valuable contribution made by recent recordings using smaller orchestras closer in size to those used in Schumann's time (though, strangely, not that many period instrument recordings). I was glad that his admiration for the old Sawallisch recording has remained strong, as this still seems to me a wonderful performance with great balance between the separate orchestral voices - above all in the glorious slow movement. But I was taken by surprise by RW's "winner", as he had seemed likely up to that point to go for one of the newer recordings, especially Nezet-Seguin. I agree with what has been said about extracts sometimes giving a misleading impression, but I thought the extracts from Abbado and Nezet-Seguin sounded the most persuasive of the recently issued discs. It was surprising that Abbado did not even make RW's short list of 5 at the end, given his praise for the first three movements of that performance; it was only the final movement where he felt Abbado's interpretation lacked pace and energy. To me it sounded fine, and RW's description of it as sounding like the Meistersinger overture was imv an absurd exaggeration.

I listened to the whole of the Gardiner performance yesterday, and although there was a lot to like about it - the slow movement was very eloquently done - it was at times too driven (e.g. in the Scherzo, where Abbado seemed ideal in the extract played) and Gardiner seemed to want to emphasise the obsessive and the neurotic, whereas Sawallisch, and perhaps Abbado, preferred to bring out a successful balance between classical structure and romantic lyricism. As RW said, it's all a matter of taste, but on the basis of what I heard, I would have chosen Abbado or Nezet-Seguin from the newer and Sawallisch from the older recordings.

[amateur51]

I have never heard drastic pronounced drarstic before !
.

It quite got on my nodules, to an alarming degree

[Rolmill]

Actually the cycle I'm now curious about is Heinz Holliger's, which I think Simon Howard recommended back in the day—'a great composer conducting a great composer' as he put it. Holliger's own compositions have the closest affinity with Schumann's I've heard from any composer since about... Debussy perhaps? His cycle will get onto the Qobuz playlist sometime soon.

I have the initial release in Holliger's series, with nos.1, 4 (original version) and the Overture, Scherzo & Finale, and I like it enormously. Clean and energetic, as Caliban says, but I also find the performances very expressive, well paced, finely played and beautifully balanced - they sound just "right" to my ears. I don't have the follow up coupling of nos 2 and 3, though I recall it was slightly less enthusiastically reviewed in Gramophone.

[Barbirollians]

The one I am interested in , no doubt perversely in the light of the HIppite tendency is the VPO/Bernstein that Nigel Simeone gave such a warm recommendation to in his Ticciati review and it seems to be going for a song on Amazon .

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The one I am interested in , no doubt perversely in the light of the HIppite tendency is the VPO/Bernstein that Nigel Simeone gave such a warm recommendation to in his Ticciati review and it seems to be going for a song on Amazon .

In its own terms (and I feel this about so many of Lennie's DG recordings from his last decade) it's an unmissable experience. As a representation of Schumann's score ... (and I feel this about so many of Lennie's DG recordings from his last decade )

[visualnickmos]

The one I am interested in , no doubt perversely in the light of the HIppite tendency is the VPO/Bernstein that Nigel Simeone gave such a warm recommendation to in his Ticciati review and it seems to be going for a song on Amazon .

But try LB's NYPO for size! Mega-good

[visualnickmos]

I've just given this a spin! First time in years, in fact.....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Schumann-4-Symphonies-Robert/dp/B000001K2A/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1417539743&sr=1-2&keywords=schumann+vox+box

It is fab! and very well-recorded. I love this recording. The performance is lively where it's supposed to be, and melancholic where necessary, but it doesn't lose pace - beautifully knitted together.

[Nick Armstrong]

the VPO/Bernstein that Nigel Simeone gave such a warm recommendation to in his Ticciati review and it seems to be going for a song on Amazon .

But try LB's NYPO for size! Mega-good

The slow movement from one of those (NYPO?), of which Mr Wigmore played part, did seem to be in "Lenny-in-Nimrod"-style suspended animation - but then again with the likes of Nézet-Séguin bouncing around, it's possibly very unfair...

[visualnickmos]

The slow movement from one of those (NYPO?), of which Mr Wigmore played part, did seem to be in "Lenny-in-Nimrod"-style suspended animation - but then again with the likes of Nézet-Séguin bouncing around, it's possibly very unfair...

It was in fact, LB's later (VPO) example that MR Wigmore played. I think some of LB's later (namely VPO recordings) lost some of the 'zip' that his NYPO recordings possessed.