BaL 29.11.14 - Schumann: Symphony no. 2

[MickyD]

The reviewer said that the Gardiner is the only one to use period instruments, but in fact the Hanover Band and Roy Goodman also did an HIP set of the symphonies on RCA.

[visualnickmos]

The reviewer said that the Gardiner is the only one to use period instruments, but in fact the Hanover Band and Roy Goodman also did an HIP set of the symphonies on RCA.

That's true. I remember that it was quite well-lauded in the 1990s, and quite popular - always popping up in HMV sales!

I never partook; did I miss something good? (man )

[jayne lee wilson]

Well this was a really impressive survey, covering a lot of ground in what will never be enough time...

Sympathies with slarty, but surely it makes sense to give more time to newer cycles on each revisit to a familiar work?
I'm afraid the excerpts from Karajan, Bernstein et al only confirmed my own prejudices against older, slower, heavier performances. I even find Szell almost unlistenable now, and as I said in January find Sawallisch almost Brucknerian in its weight and grandeur!
I was surprised how many of the excerpts sounded disappointing, and was amused to find my ears pricking up at.... Nezet-Seguin - which was the performance I least enjoyed from his cycle! Heavens, do I have to have yet another go at it now? All is truly relative...

But the much-praised winner JEG still sounded flat and inexpressive to me, even in this comparative context. I keep returning to the lovely green & white Archiv box, but never really get on with it... I feel that Dausgaard does everything JEG does but does it better, in better sound - AND it's a real competitor as a comprehensive symphonic survey.

I was thrilled with Abbado's OM performance earlier this year, but today the finale did indeed sound... plodding? Well, very steady... Again, it's simply because of my recent fortnight in the company of Ticciati and Nezet-S. All that dash, agility, volatility and rhythmical freedom! The Abbado will never sound the same again...

Glad to hear the oft-overlooked Harnoncourt getting some acclaim, the whole COE cycle is very, very good - AND you have the Berlin Phil supplement with the 1851 4th.

Classical performances are like sharks; if they're not constantly moving forward, they die... You can still enjoy them in the museum though...

***
I was a bit uncomfortable with RW's pronunciation of Nezet-Seguin, ("Say-Gwan") so I looked around and found this

http://www.yannicknezetseguin.com/phil10_en.html

So it's "Say-GUN". Good to get that cleared up... (I'd started with a nasal say-gan, then moved to say-geen...)...

[JFLL]

I was a bit uncomfortable with RW's pronunciation of Nezet-Seguin, ("Say-Gwan") so I looked around and found this

http://www.yannicknezetseguin.com/phil10_en.html

So it's "Say-GUN". Good to get that cleared up... (I'd started with a nasal say-gan, then moved to say-geen...)...

Surely it can't be "Say-GUN", as we pronounce say and gun? This looks to me like Berlitzese, or a version by a linguistically unsophisticated English-speaker making a shot at the French sound he heard. Phonetically, isn't the ending as in Gauguin, a nasalized open e? (Unfortunately I can't do the correct phonetic symbol with the fonts I have -- a Greek epsilon with a tilde)?

Sorry, I've strayed into Pedants' Paradise, and don't at all want to detract from your very interesting (as always) comments on the music.

[cloughie]

Karajan and Haitink were the first sets I got, later I got the Gardiner.

Four's my favourite anyway, and It's Furtwangler and Karajan, for me.

Interesting Bal, but increasingly it shows that you can almost divide it into two self-contained programmes, one on well-upholstered 'traditional' performances and the other on HIPP/later renditions.

Certainly agree with you on Furtwangler - which Karajan - I like the EMI 1955 recording. Klemperer's 4th is good- was done earlier than 1 2 & 3 with the Philharmonia on good form!

[jayne lee wilson]

Google on "Yannick-Nezet Saywhat? - youtube" for the truth from the maestro's mouth...
(Link to video was "unavailable" as usual...) What a youthful charmer Yannick seems!

So JFLL you were right! As was my initial guess... (i.e, as per Gauguin).
But I realise now that the journalist, David Patrick Stearns, would be saying "gun" with an American accent - so for him it would be, well, close enough...
.

[MickyD]

Surely it can't be "Say-GUN", as we pronounce say and gun? This looks to me like Berlitzese, or a version by a linguistically unsophisticated English-speaker making a shot at the French sound he heard. Phonetically, isn't the ending as in Gauguin, a nasalized open e? (Unfortunately I can't do the correct phonetic symbol with the fonts I have -- a Greek epsilon with a tilde)?

Sorry, I've strayed into Pedants' Paradise, and don't at all want to detract from your very interesting (as always) comments on the music.

I would agree with you over the pronunciation...the final 'n' in GUN shouldn't be heard.

[MickyD]

That's true. I remember that it was quite well-lauded in the 1990s, and quite popular - always popping up in HMV sales!

I never partook; did I miss something good? (man )

Yes, it's a good set...I got hold of it a little while ago. I also have the original Gardiner set, but regret not waiting before it was packaged into a budget box with other Schumann works from Gardiner.

[Beef Oven!]

Certainly agree with you on Furtwangler - which Karajan - I like the EMI 1955 recording. Klemperer's 4th is good- was done earlier than 1 2 & 3 with the Philharmonia on good form!

Yes, the 1955 Karajan Schumann on EMI, but the Furtwangler is best!

[cloughie]

Classical performances are like sharks; if they're not constantly moving forward, they die...[/I] You can still enjoy them in the museum though...

It could be argued that HIPP performances are moving backwards - I have the JEG set but less than thrilled by it - guess its back to the museum shelves for
Barenboim
Bernstein x3
Celibidache
Dohnanyi
Haitink
Inbal
Janowski
Karajan
Klemperer
Konwitschny
Kubelik x2
Levine
Marriner
Masur x2
Mehta
Muti
Paray
Saccani
Sawallisch x2
Schuricht
Sinopoli x2
Solti
Szell
Thielemann
Vonk
Wit

and just to get the right sound I'll play them through my 80s amp and 70s speakers!

[JFLL]

Google on "Yannick-Nezet Saywhat? - youtube" for the truth from the maestro's mouth...
(Link to video was "unavailable" as usual...) What a youthful charmer Yannick seems!.

Yes, isn't he? Maybe we should just called him 'Yankee' after what he said!

[Barbirollians]

We all have different ears . I find much HIPPite Schumann dull . Dausgaard is a notable exception.

[Nick Armstrong]

My money's already on Gardiner

Tipster of the day (I think Bbm was getting round to putting on a similar wager...)

Wasn't the opening Klemperer excerpt truly dreadful? No wonder critics used to slag off this symphony!

I'm afraid the excerpts from Karajan, Bernstein et al only confirmed my own prejudices against older, slower, heavier performances.

I was surprised how many of the excerpts sounded disappointing

Yes me too - the Kubelik too... But one must beware the deceptive tendency of short extracts, of which I'm becoming more keenly conscious as the years go by (see further below)....

Well this was a really impressive survey, covering a lot of ground in what will never be enough time...

Agreed. Most enjoyable. And interesting that that despite the newcomers, RW's view has moved on from his opinion (quoted earlier, from classical-music.com, the online offshoot of BBCMM, that:

"Sawallisch’s searching, far-seeing 1972 recording, gloriously executed by the Dresden Staatskapelle, still leads the field, despite memorable recent offerings from the likes of Gardiner, Sinopoli and Thielemann. Richard Wigmore"

such that he now places one of those 'runners up' above the Sawallisch.

was amused to find my ears pricking up at.... Nezet-Seguin - which was the performance I least enjoyed from his cycle!

Same here! But again - I've come to beware of the superficial attractions of short clips from these swifter, 'modern' recordings. The same happened with clips from the P. Jarvi Beethoven cycles - I was enthused from 2 minute extracts on CD Review, but then very disappointed having invested hastily and listened to the whole thing. Same with the YN-S I suspect. Such performances can ofter flatter to deceive when brief extracts are pitted against more balanced performances, I think.

I was a bit uncomfortable with RW's pronunciation of Nezet-Seguin, ("Say-Gwan")

So was I !!

[amateur51]

I agree, an enjoyable BaL.

However I find RW's voice problematic - it is almost as boring as Clement Freud's, such that by the time the clip was played, I'd forgotten who it was by.

But that's me.

Innit.

[Nick Armstrong]

I agree, an enjoyable BaL.

However I find RW's voice problematic - it is almost as boring as Clement Freud's, such that by the time the clip was played, I'd forgotten who it was by.

But that's me.

Innit.

Got yer Schumann Minced Morsels muddled up Ammy?

I find that with certain other reviewers, but find RW's gravelly introductions fine, or at least I did earlier.