BaL 29.11.14 - Schumann: Symphony no. 2

[amateur51]

For me, the insistence on performance being 'idiomatic' leads inexorably to the position where the only way to play Czech music is exactly the way Czechs do it, English/English, French/French, American/American etc. It becomes an unhelpful straitjacket.

What about 'idiomatic Chopin'?

[Don Petter]

What about 'idiomatic Chopin'?

That's how I think of self-service tills.

[Roehre]

For me, the insistence on performance being 'idiomatic' leads inexorably to the position where the only way to play Czech music is exactly the way Czechs do it, English/English, French/French, American/American etc. It becomes an unhelpful straitjacket.

It isn't a straitjacket.
Very recently proven by the russian (Roszdestvensky et al) production of an RVW-cycle.
something is added to the music, but it loses something else. Is this cycle a cycle which RVW would recogize as representing his thoughts?

[Don Petter]

Any music of substance should be able to stand considerable variations of stylistic and regional interpretations, even if the 'composer's vision', as far as it can be determined, is the one to come back to.

[Alison]

The phrase that always wins me over is 'warmly expressive'.

[Don Petter]

The phrase that always wins me over is 'warmly expressive'.

Reminds one of the milking parlour?

[kea]

Just played the Ticciati Spring again... maybe it helped that it's a bright November dawn rather than a dark one, but...wow. WOW. God how wonderful is that. Truly I am blessed.
(Sleep, what's that? Oh, you mean sleep...)

I'm listening to this now and it is fantastic. Somewhat 'pianistic' in phrasing and contrapuntal lines, if that makes sense—like he's trying to point up the continuity from the early piano works (with their brilliance, intensity, manic energy and insanity) to these symphonies (conventional and romantic... on the surface). That's always a good thing in my view. (And yes, he does remind me a bit of Kubelik, which is also a good thing in my view.)

Will continue on to the 2nd as advised (currently in the scherzo of the 1st)

edit to update: The 2nd is actually not that different from the 1st, interpretively. I think the difference might be in the music itself, which is so much more Schumannesque with its obsessive rhythmic patterns, quasi-improvised formal structures and tendency to modulate by simply "planing" in and out of keys. (For an extreme example of all of these things, listen to the Novelette Op. 21 no. 6.) It makes me inclined to believe the 2nd is the greatest of the four symphonies, the one that most successfully captures the inherent tension of early Romanticism (if not necessarily the most satisfying to listen to). Schumann tries to neaten everything by playing it twice, but Ticciati undermines him by playing the repeats quite differently most of the time—to the benefit of the music, I think. Tempi are also spot on, in contrast to Golden Age Schumann (Karajan, Klemperer, etc) which tends to be too slow, and modern Schumann (Gardiner, YNS, etc) which tends to be too fast.*

* The opposite seems to apply to pianists; a lot of the classic readings of Schumann piano works (Fischer, Anda, Gieseking, Argerich etc) are quite fast indeed, whereas younger pianists seem to be slowing things down quite a bit...

[amateur51]

That's how I think of self-service tills.

That took me a moment, Don

[silvestrione]

How do you feel about 'idiomatic/unidiomatic'?

Yes, useful terms also, for me. There's plenty of space for disagreement about whether a performance is or is not idiomatic, of course!
But 'really unidiomatic' implies essential elements of the music are just not recognised: they're often elements that are instinctively or intuitively felt, and may be elements that are absorbed by growing up in a particular culture.

There are counter-examples: Furtwangler's Tchaikovsky 6 perhaps? Not idiomatic, but terrific.

[cloughie]

That took me a moment, Don

Need to Czech your Liszt!

[amateur51]

Need to Czech your Liszt!

[Barbirollians]

I fear it will be the desiccated Zinman again .

[amateur51]

I fear it will be the desiccated Zinman again .

Again?!?

[verismissimo]

I fear it will be the desiccated Zinman again .

But... but... I enjoy the Zinman...

[cloughie]

But... but... I enjoy the Zinman...

Probably top 5 or 6!