BaL 29.11.14 - Schumann: Symphony no. 2

[cloughie]

Wow - 23 quid for the downloads versus 67 for the CDs ... no contest!

Thought your legal eye would be keener, cali - there is the new and used option £16.99 and £19.99 plus p&p!

[ostuni]

#146 from JLW: what a wonderful, perceptive, open-minded piece of writing. Worth the price of any magazine subscription - and here we get it for free. Many thanks, JLW!

[kea]

That's interesting kea, do please post your reactions to the Holliger No 2. As mentioned upthread, I happened to record it onto the bedside DAB SD-card and have hence listened a lot when live radio became intolerable. It's clean and energetic and - well, fine!

Hmm, I've not had much mental processing power left for comparing recordings—have been busy, also have probably been doing too much of that lately—but I did listen to Holliger's 2nd and it seemed to be the warmest, most affectionate performance of this work I've ever heard, perhaps not as high on energy and contrast as Ticciati but with a tenderness and attention to detail that continually brought things I hadn't previously noticed to the surface. Holliger's phrasings are much more vocal in character (perhaps fittingly as he's a wind player, not a string/keyboard player like Ticcs) and more assured in their treatment of the barline. I also heard his 1841 4th. Goodman's is more lucid in some respects, but Holliger treats it as a single-movement work rather than four interconnected movements, as should be done imv. I don't remember what Gardiner does with the 1841 4th, Holliger seemed to hold his own though.

This is based on one listen while doing other things, and I've no time to comment in more detail right now, but will say that if the rest of the symphonies are as good, this may become my go to cycle, with Ticciati (or possibly Goodman) as alternative.

[color]
I'd be interested to know a bit more of your thoughts about Holliger's compositions having affinities with Schumann's - not that I disagree, just that I'm totally ignorant![/COLOR]

It's almost more like a 'Schumann obsession' considering how many compositions overtly reference him (Gesänge die Fruhe, Romancendres, Partita, etc) but I'm thinking more along the lines that Holliger's music from the start displayed an intuitive affinity with Schumann's compositional practices, strengths and limitations. It's a rather half-baked thought at the moment but I'll work on it.

[Nick Armstrong]

Thought your legal eye would be keener, cali - there is the new and used option £16.99 and £19.99 plus p&p!

I take the batteries out of my legal eye at midnight!! (and stop the meter )

Plus I was looking at the download page which only had one comparative CD price and it was too late to ferret any further. I was just struck by the headline prices.

[verismissimo]

#146 from JLW: what a wonderful, perceptive, open-minded piece of writing. Worth the price of any magazine subscription - and here we get it for free. Many thanks, JLW!

Oh yes!

[HighlandDougie]

(**Travellers on the hi-res highway - note that Holliger's Schumann is available direct from Audite in 24/48 res., and for FAR less money than lossless/CD elsewhere! Vol. 1 looks worth a shot...)

Combined with Kea's enthusiasm for HH's Schumann, JLW pointing out that a high-res download of the 2nd and 3rd was available for less than £7.00 made this difficult to resist. As I've OD'd on the second in the past week, and straying off-topic to the Rhenish, what a joyous performance. If Boult was the go-to cycle of the 1950s, Kubelik of the 1960s, Sawallisch and Karajan of the 70s, nobody of the 80s, Sinopoli of the 90s and JEG of the 00s, maybe HH is the cycle which brings together all the best elements of Dausgaard, Y N-S, Ticciati et al but pips them all.

[cloughie]

I take the batteries out of my legal eye at midnight!! (and stop the meter )

Plus I was looking at the download page which only had one comparative CD price and it was too late to ferret any further. I was just struck by the headline prices.

I thought you'd have your reasons. I've noticed recently on Amazon it appears more difficult to spot the £0.01s as the prices Low to high are listed on Amazon prices not merchants!

[Barbirollians]

Combined with Kea's enthusiasm for HH's Schumann, JLW pointing out that a high-res download of the 2nd and 3rd was available for less than £7.00 made this difficult to resist. As I've OD'd on the second in the past week, and straying off-topic to the Rhenish, what a joyous performance. If Boult was the go-to cycle of the 1950s, Kubelik of the 1960s, Sawallisch and Karajan of the 70s, nobody of the 80s, Sinopoli of the 90s and JEG of the 00s, maybe HH is the cycle which brings together all the best elements of Dausgaard, Y N-S, Ticciati et al but pips them all.

Nobody of the 1980s ? Well if all of them are as good as the amazing Spring I have just listened to I should say VPO/Bernstein.

The extraordinary thing for me is how Beethovenian the 1st sounds in Lenny's hands . The VPO playing especially the woodwind is stunning no sign of poor orchestration when played like this .

[Roehre]

Nobody of the 1980s ? Well if all of them are as good as the amazing Spring I have just listened to I should say VPO/Bernstein.

The extraordinary thing for me is how Beethovenian the 1st sounds in Lenny's hands . The VPO playing especially the woodwind is stunning no sign of poor orchestration when played like this .

Sorry Barbirollians, the orchestration is most certainly not poor, only not convenient for expanded late 19 and 20C symphony orchestras. Schumann did not compose with wagnerian-brucknerian-straussian-mahlerian-sized orchestras in mind.

For the '80s there is at least one cycle I would like to mention: Muti/Philharmonia.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

For the '80s there is at least one cycle I would like to mention: Muti/Philharmonia.

Weren't these recorded in 1976-78? (Admitedly, certainly a set for the '80s, '90s, '00s and '1xs and beyond - thrilling performances, amongst Muti's finest work and much better than his VPO remakes.)

[Barbirollians]

Sorry Barbirollians, the orchestration is most certainly not poor, only not convenient for expanded late 19 and 20C symphony orchestras. Schumann did not compose with wagnerian-brucknerian-straussian-mahlerian-sized orchestras in mind.

For the '80s there is at least one cycle I would like to mention: Muti/Philharmonia.

I don't think they were poorly orchestrated at all - I mentioned that old canard as an Aunt Sally to be knocked down by the evidence of the recording.

[Roehre]

Weren't these recorded in 1976-78? (Admitedly, certainly a set for the '80s, '90s, '00s and '1xs and beyond - thrilling performances, amongst Muti's finest work and much better than his VPO remakes.)

Cannot check that easily as I got the set in 1982 and a year later or so a lovely (but shortly afterwards ex-)girlfriend borrowed them....

[cloughie]

Cannot check that easily as I got the set in 1982 and a year later or so a lovely (but shortly afterwards ex-)girlfriend borrowed them....

As they are listed as NPO and PO I would guess that they spanned c1975 - 78!

[Bryn]

Such a pity that Sir Charles Mackerras recorded so little Schumann commercially. His hurriedly prepared 1999 EIF survey of the Symphonies and Concertos with the SCO was (and via the cassette recordings I managed to make of the Radio 3 FM broadcasts, remain) a real joy. He did not mess about re. the 4th, either. Both the original and revised versions were included.

[Barbirollians]

The VPO/Bernstein set is terrific not for everyday no doubt but a welcome antidote to much of the skimmed milk Schumann about .

The playing is sensational and the mixture of excitement and the emotional pull of the slow movements is just intoxicating .