BaL 15.11.14 - Rossini: William Tell

[Flosshilde]

Perhaps, but as we all know he doesn't like opera, is there any need for him to tell us each time he tries? It would be more noteworthy if he told us when the penny does drop (as I'm sure it will - eventually )

[Nick Armstrong]

Perhaps, but as we all know he doesn't like opera, is there any need for him to tell us each time he tries? It would be more noteworthy if he told us when the penny does drop (as I'm sure it will - eventually )

Call me old-fashioned but I think it's called freedom of expression.

we all know he doesn't like opera

Oh you all do, do you?

FYI, I do love some operas. Inc. a couple of Italian ones (tho' by Puccini)

[aeolium]

Can't say fairer than that. Honesty is the best policy...

But what on earth does it add to a BaL thread to say you find the music dire or the work dull, if you say nothing else about the music? You might as well say you find Northumberland or pancakes dull. And how can you say it was an excellent BaL when the music obviously meant nothing to you? How could you tell if it was excellent or not, if you can't compare anything the reviewer was saying with anything in your own experience of the music?

There is plenty of music I don't care for but I regard that as my loss rather than something to celebrate, or something to mock the music about, and unless I have something else to say about the music than just that I find it dull I'd rather stay out of a thread and leave it for those who are interested in it.

[Don Petter]

And how can you say it was an excellent BaL when the music obviously meant nothing to you? How could you tell if it was excellent or not, if you can't compare anything the reviewer was saying with anything in your own experience of the music?

It was certainly an excellent BaL in that the presenter was pleasing of voice, articulate, seemed very knowledgeable about his subject, and didn't keep saying 'kind-of' in every other phrase. BaLs are capable of being judged independently of the conclusions of the presenter or the musical sympathies of the listener.

[Nick Armstrong]

But what on earth does it add to a BaL thread to say you find the music dire or the work dull, if you say nothing else about the music?

Errr.... diversity of opinions?

[Gordon]

Perhaps Cal would like it better if it were played ma non Tonto?

[Barbirollians]

Didn't sound like Rossini's best work I must admit - another exemplary BAL from Richard Osborne though. I wish they would give him the Eroica next !

[Gordon]

Some years ago RO did a whole Interpretations on Record just on Eroica's first movement!! Splendid it is too. Must look it up to see who won - I seem to remember it was Klemperer.

[visualnickmos]

It was certainly an excellent BaL in that the presenter was pleasing of voice, articulate, seemed very knowledgeable about his subject, and didn't keep saying 'kind-of' in every other phrase. BaLs are capable of being judged independently of the conclusions of the presenter or the musical sympathies of the listener.

Exactly. It doesn't take a love of gardening to recognise a rose.

Moreover, I was under the impression that these threads are discussion threads. Therefore it is conceivable that part of that discussion is formed of opinions and contributions that are negative. That is surly the point of discussion.

[Don Basilio]

I listened to Act IV up to the prayer last night and thought it great.

I find football dull. To join a thread in a Manchester City messageboard to say so is just silly.

Any way, if James Joyce, Wagner and Berlioz can all admire a work, three men with little in common, then it can't be all bad.

[aeolium]

I find football dull. To join a thread in a Manchester City messageboard to say so is just silly.

Yes. There is freedom of expression to go into a pub and interrupt a conversation between people who are discussing an Ashes test match to say how boring you find cricket, how you once slept through a whole day at one, and by the way here are some jokes about how boring it is, but it hardly improves the quality of the discussion. And as for diversity of opinion, once someone has said that they find a work dull or rubbish, what else is there for that person to say - and what can anyone say about that opinion, which says everything about the person expressing it and nothing about the work?

I just wonder why people who are completely uninterested in a work would listen to a BaL about it. Would they also enjoy people derailing a thread about music they loved to discuss anything else other than the work or the programme or to post jokey clips about the music? And people here complain about presentation on Breakfast and Essential Classics!

[Don Petter]

I just wonder why people who are completely uninterested in a work would listen to a BaL about it.

I, for one, listened because I knew nothing about the work. I only found I was uninterested in it after listening to a nonetheless interesting BaL!

[Don Petter]

I find football dull. To join a thread in a Manchester City messageboard to say so is just silly.

I find this a strange parallel. I don't think any of the 'dullards' said they found all music, or even all opera, dull.

[jean]

...I was under the impression that these threads are discussion threads. Therefore it is conceivable that part of that discussion is formed of opinions and contributions that are negative. That is surly the point of discussion.

Look at #34 -35. The suggestion of inside knowledge displayed - it was one of the cast who told the poster the opera was rubbish. Look at #49 - 54 Do they actually discuss anything? Cheap jokes about Norman Wisdom rarely enhance any discussion IMO.

It wouldn't matter if Rossini's opere serie were as well known as the operas of (say) Mozart, but in fact they are (as has been said)hardly heard at all in this country. I would hate people to form the impression that this was the standard view and meant they didn't have to waste time exploring any further.

[Nick Armstrong]

I find football dull. To join a thread in a Manchester City messageboard to say so is just silly.

I agree with Don, I think that's a false analogy. I think the parallel would be that someone loves football passionately, and therefore takes part in a Forum about football; but he or she takes a dim view of the tactics (or whatever) of Man City - it's surely not silly for that individual to participate in a thread about Man City on that Forum to say so?

Any way, if James Joyce, Wagner and Berlioz can all admire a work, three men with little in common, then it can't be all bad.

I agree - rather than them, it's more the fact that musicians for whom I have the uttermost respect like Abbado and Chailly consider it worthy of their most diligent attention. That's what makes me keep trying...

And, aeolium and jean, I just think this is a Forum for all views about music and most manners of expressing them, analytical, trenchant, sardonic etc. The diversity of views I think adds vigour, interest and humour. A "Rossini Appreciation Forum" would be a different sort of place - and yes, I can see it would arguably be perverse to join that Forum to opine that Rossini's operas were dull....