BaL 24.05.14: Beethoven Symphony no. 2 in D

[Beef Oven!]

Maybe I've misunderstood, but what's wrong with presenters being 'matey'? (whatever that means)

Unless of course what we mean is that presenters are reducing the quantity of critical evaluation that's brought to bear, and replacing it with bonhomie, or are inhibited for fear of upsetting the niceness of it all.

All the same, I found it an interesting tour through some interesting recordings (I quite fancy having a nibble at Harnoncourt, Norrington's Stuttgart, Bruggen and Skrowatzewski) with a 'winner' that few, if any would have predicted.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes, in spite of my expectations (read "prejudices"), I thoroughly enjoyed this week's BaL and made many ear-opening discoveries: the Klemperer for one - much better than his fine studio recording!

So glad the Krivine was so well praised (and Andrew MacG has changed his tune since the chatty review he and Stephen Johnson made on Seedy Review when the set first came out - better than Thielemann, but "ultimately unconvincing" and not a patch on Chailly seemed to be the view back then. Krivine's remains my favourite recorded set of the Beethoven symphonies many playings later - it used to be available for about £16; inflation (and availability) have slapped it around the head since then, but these are truly revalatory, glad-to-be-alive performances: joyful and powerful in breath-taking equal measure. The recorded sound is fine on my little study player, and on headphones - but less good on better-quality equipment in a larger room (I couldn't hear the piccolo in the finale of the Fifth, for example).

Looking forward to hearing the Skrowacewski* on Bank Holiday Monday.


EDIT: * = Skrowaczewski, Skrowaczewski, Skrowaczewski. Hell - I have problems with "Davi(e)s"!!!

[Lento]

Wasn't Beecham's "dancing yaks" remark referring to Beethoven's 7th, btw? Seems more appropriate to that Scherzo.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Let me guess:

NBC, Toscanini
NYPO, Walter
Philharmonia, Karajan
RPO, Beecham
Phil., Klemperer
VPO Bohm
BPO, Abbado
SCO, Mackerras
LCP, Norrington
Concertgebouw, Jochum

Plus another 10...

...unless our spy has inside info...

I was almost completely wrong with my guesses. In the end it turned out to be much more interesting.

[mercia]

I hadn't appreciated, as illustrated in one of the recordings, that in Beethoven's time (and later ??) solo players in the orchestra would add improvised embellishments to their parts. I can't think I've ever heard that being done in a performance. I can't remember which of the recordings it was now, but Rob understandably didn't recommend it for repeated listening.

[visualnickmos]

I never remember seeing this set before. It is going for about $8 on Amazon. Tempting.

For that small amount of dosh, go for it!!! It's a great set.

[visualnickmos]

... I'm a bit disappointed that Rob played such a very short extract from the superlative Szell/ Cleveland recording.

Yes - in fact the whole set is in a class of its own - and so well recorded as well.

[BBMmk2]

Get the lot for £7.07 new (+£1.26 p+p):http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Sy...tens+Beethoven

It remains a great set with truly superb playing, especially from the oboe throughout.

Does anyone know why Cluytens was chosen to record this cycle? Was it intended for Karajan before he decamped to DG? Whatever the case, it is, in some ways a finer set than Karajan's 1962 cycle with, one assumes, many of the same players.

Could well be then, Pet! :)

[antongould]

indeed waldo; having by chance discovered the Skrowaczewski cycle on emusic last month and finding it attractive

but the Krivine and the Jarvi have me confused; there was an excerpt from a recording of stunning audio quality but which was it?

Thanks for the correct emusic spelling Calum just downloading 2/3 now for £3.38......

[Bryn]

Thanks for the correct emusic spelling Calum just downloading 2/3 now for £3.38......

I'm happy to wait for the HD Sound version on Radio 3 during Monday's Essential Classics. If it lives up to expectations, I think I can find all 9 symphonies from the same team on CDs for around £20.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I hadn't appreciated, as illustrated in one of the recordings, that in Beethoven's time (and later ??) solo players in the orchestra would add improvised embellishments to their parts. I can't think I've ever heard that being done in a performance. I can't remember which of the recordings it was now, but Rob understandably didn't recommend it for repeated listening.

Zinman & the Tonhalle Orchestram Zurich (on Arte Nova), mercs. This was mentioned a few weeks ago in the Beethoven #7 BaL, where there is a prominent solo Oboe cadenza (of around the same dimensions as that in the Fifth Symphony. I haven't encountered any evidence to support this (which is not to say that none exists) - I could understand such a tradition in the case of Haydn and other court composers and kappelmeisters who had "their own" orchestras, working with the same Musicians on the same sort of repertoire week after week; but weren't Beethoven's orchestras ad hoc collections of free-lance Musicians, gathered for the purpose of individual performances? Wouldn't they have enough on their plates reading the notes in front of them. (And, in the case of the oboe cadenzas - if Beethoven might have expected the Musician to improvize, why write one in in the Fifth?) And was it just woodwind players who added such embellishments? Zinman's strings don't join in the fun in the example we heard this morning.

Genuine questions; where is the source of this idea?

[verismissimo]

I didn't hear it all, but I thought the Toscanini chunk he played was very exciting. Was it the NBC version in Alpie's list or an earlier NY Phil recording?

[Dave2002]

Yes, in spite of my expectations (read "prejudices"), I thoroughly enjoyed this week's BaL and made many ear-opening discoveries: the Klemperer for one - much better than his fine studio recording!

So glad the Krivine was so well praised (and Andrew MacG has changed his tune since the chatty review he and Stephen Johnson made on Seedy Review when the set first came out - better than Thielemann, but "ultimately unconvincing" and not a patch on Chailly seemed to be the view back then. Krivine's remains my favourite recorded set of the Beethoven symphonies many playings later - it used to be available for about £16; inflation (and availability) have slapped it around the head since then, but these are truly revalatory, glad-to-be-alive performances: joyful and powerful in breath-taking equal measure. The recorded sound is fine on my little study player, and on headphones - but less good on better-quality equipment in a larger room (I couldn't hear the piccolo in the finale of the Fifth, for example).

Looking forward to hearing the Skrowacewski* on Bank Holiday Monday.


EDIT: * = Skrowaczewski, Skrowaczewski, Skrowaczewski. Hell - I have problems with "Davi(e)s"!!!

I'd almost certainly rather have a very good "modern" orchestra performance than a merely OK HIPP one, but there are others which could have been considered. From what I've heard Immerseel's Beethoven performances are up there with Krivine, but didn't get an outing. Norrington's LCP version did get a short extract though - with a good recording.

The "lunge/sforzando" solution by Skrowaczewski in the third movement was unusual and interesting. Is there a textual issue there? Do different editions show different texts in that area? Could Skrowaczewski's approach really be justified?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I didn't hear it all, but I thought the Toscanini chunk he played was very exciting. Was it the NBC version in Alpie's list or an earlier NY Phil recording?

It was the first NBC version from (IIRC) 1939; later than the NYPO version, but before the more familiar RCA recording from (I think) 1949.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'd almost certainly rather have a very good "modern" orchestra performance than a merely OK HIPP one

I don't think Klemperer recorded a HIPP recording, Dave.

And the Krivine is an astonishing set of performances - but you're right, Immerseel should've been included.