BaL 24.05.14: Beethoven Symphony no. 2 in D

[Thropplenoggin]

I have always found that dissonant crescendo at the end of the first movement, if performed well, to be an extraordinarily dramatic effect: in it you can hear all of what was to come later in his symphonies in terms of the veritiginous Sublime, and in some of later music, too (like the 'scream' in Mahler 10).

[Hornspieler]

Beethoven 2 was -with the Leonore III, concertgebouw/Kubelik- the work which in december 1970 triggered my interest in classical music. Therefore I have not only love it intensely and have an artistic interest in it, but am heavily indebted to it as well.

A question for HS.
The horn parts in B2 are difficult.
Are these comparable with the parts in Mozart's Prague?
This arises from the fact that Mozart's work without doubt influenced Beethoven's here, especially in the 2nd mvt.

I first encountered this symphony at the age of fifteen with the Salisbury Orchestral Society. At that age, adolescent bravado overcame all fear and I played the piece on a narrow bore French horn with an F crook. So I got away with it and it never frightened me again, but I could tell you of one very famous (deservedly) ex principal horn who would look for any excuse not to play it.

Prague symphony? No - those horn parts do not go within a major 5th of the high notes in the Beethoven and nowhere are they anything like as exposed.

Beethoven 2 is often overlooked despite its importance.
At the time of composition it was the longest symphony written, an accolade it would loose soon to the Eroica.

More important are the references to a future symphony, the Ninth.
The introduction of the 1st mvt foreshadows the 1st theme of the 9th's 1st mvt.
The trio of the scherzo is literally repeated in the 9th's scherzo.
Originally the finale was conceived as a rondo, it now got the character of a sonata-form.

My views on the 9th symphony have become well advertised on these boards and I have said on more than one occasion that I would happily exchange the finale of the 2nd symphony for the finale of the 9th.

Micky D (message#14) says:
"I've just found this nice HIP performance by the New Dutch Academy...I don't think I have ever heard of them before. The natural horns seem to cope pretty well!"

Not surprising, since all the notes required are within the harmonic series of a valveless horn, using the appropriate change of crook from E to A, so would possibly be easier to play than on the later-developed narrow bored valved horn which I was using in 1947/8.

I hope that Tony, who seems to know more than me about those earlier instruments, might come back in on this discussion.

HS

The accompanying photograph, taken in 1948 shows the 15 year old Hornspieler practising on his beloved narrow bore piston valved French horn. I have always regretted selling it when I obtained my first rotary valved wide bore double horn.

[Hornspieler]

I have always found that dissonant crescendo at the end of the first movement, if performed well, to be an extraordinarily dramatic effect: in it you can hear all of what was to come later in his symphonies in terms of the veritiginous Sublime, and in some of later music, too (like the 'scream' in Mahler 10).

A highlight of the symphony for me. Those two trumpets clashing against each other sends a shiver down my spine.

HS

[Thropplenoggin]

A highlight of the symphony for me. Those two trumpets clashing against each other sends a shiver down my spine.

HS

Thanks for explaining which instruments are doing that, HS.

Always fascinating to read the insights of ex-orchestra players such as yourself, Tony et al.

[gurnemanz]

As often on here, a thread has prompted me to go back to a work I haven't played for a while. I've just played Manchester Camerata/Douglas Boyd, which I remembered was the favourite from my shelves.

[richardfinegold]

When Dorati took the helm of the Detroit SO, about 30 years ago, he started his tenure with a Beethoven Festival. I was at a concert that featured #2, and per Petrushka's original post, I can't remember encountering it in the Concert Hall since. Haitink did a complete Beethoven cycle with the Chicago SO here last year, and Barenboim did a complete cycle here with the Berlin Staatkapelle a few years ago, but outside of complete cycles it doesn't seem to be programmed much.
My first recording was the Krips/LSO, paired with 4. Szell was my second and is still my favorite.

[aeolium]

van Beinum very good in this symphony too, both with the Concertgebouw and also on BBC Legends with the Philharmonia.

[Suffolkcoastal]

To add to what Roehre said above, the 2nd was probably the Beethoven symphony that had the most influence on the symphonies of his contemporaries and immediate successors such as Krommer, Cherubini & Ries through to Potter and Mosonyi, whilst the 3rd was just at that time a step to far for these composers.

[Barbirollians]

Another more than worth a mention is Sir Rog's pioneering recording with the LCP in the late 1980s .

[Beef Oven!]

As often on here, a thread has prompted me to go back to a work I haven't played for a while. I've just played Manchester Camerata/Douglas Boyd, which I remembered was the favourite from my shelves.

Same here. Played two last night - BPO Karajan 1962 & London Classical Players Norrington.

Karajan was my favourite until Norrington came along in 86-88 (I acquired the CDs in the 1990s) and those two cycles have been perfect for me.

More recently, I've purchased Hogwood and Gardiner but not played them enough yet.

[Bryn]

Another more than worth a mention is Sir Rog's pioneering recording with the LCP in the late 1980s .

Indeed, and let's not forget the arrangement for piano trio the composer made:

[cloughie]

When Dorati took the helm of the Detroit SO, about 30 years ago, he started his tenure with a Beethoven Festival. I was at a concert that featured #2, and per Petrushka's original post, I can't remember encountering it in the Concert Hall since. Haitink did a complete Beethoven cycle with the Chicago SO here last year, and Barenboim did a complete cycle here with the Berlin Staatkapelle a few years ago, but outside of complete cycles it doesn't seem to be programmed much.
My first recording was the Krips/LSO, paired with 4. Szell was my second and is still my favorite.

Dorati's very good RPO set of Beethoven Syms on DG has yet to be CD'd! My earliest LPs of No2 were Konwitschny on Fontana and Jochum on DG. Now have both on DG - still high on my list.

[Pulcinella]

I have just picked up a copy of the 2014 Proms Guide (not embargoed).
Eight of the Beethoven symphonies are programmed.
You guessed: the one that isn't is number 2!!

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

many thanks for this thread; just started on the Staatskapelle Dresden and Colin Davis - the first movement is hot as we say in jazbo circles

[Thropplenoggin]

All this talk of the 2nd is giving me a 'new Beethoven cycle' itch I might have to scratch. I've got my eye on the supposedly Furtwanglerian Barenboim/Staatskapelle Dresen, Wand (RCA), and Jochum/LSO.

Anyone have any of thoughts on any of these?