BaL 10.05.14 - Mozart: The Marriage of Figaro on DVD

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Roger Norrington's supercilious smirk, and reinventions of history re vibrato to promote the "superiority' of his own performances.
Roy Goodman's BaL for Beethoven's Violin Concerto.
Harnoncourt's put-down of other interpretations of Dvorak Symphonies not being "accurate" enough.
Brickbats hurled at conductors who see the word "Andante" and interpret this as meaning "at a walking pace" rather than crotchet = 80, which can sound like a quick jogging speed in certain music.
None of the above prevents conductors and listeners from thinking for themselves, but is casts doubts, and where there are doubts, the sheep will follow.

This count as "bullying by vested interests"??!! (And might it not be thought that somebody who refers to other people as "the sheep" is in no poisition to refer to anybody else's "supercilious smirk"?) Roy Goodman "bullied" people into buying his choice of Beethoven Vln Concerto?? How, in the name of all that's sane? Did he post photos on Twitter of everyone who went into a shop to buy another version? Or hold their heads down a toilet until they bought his preferred version? Did Harnoncourt get a group of pals together to stand making clucking noises outside the workplace of everyone who owned copies of Kertesz? What is your definition of "brickbat", and who has hurled such an object and at whom? It is - as you must see yourself, Alpie - nonsense to refer to the examples you give as "bullying".

As for vested interests, there's a whole new industry out there producing "old" instruments in order to achieve "authenticity". Sometimes I wonder how moderately paid musicians can afford the extra instruments that fashion pressurises them to buy. However, I concede that most who play such instruments specialise in period performance, so perhaps that isn't as issue.

Erm ... so (let me see if I understood you correctly) this "whole new industry out there" came into existence, not because performers want to play Music on the instruments with timbres that the composers might have expected, but because ... ? Well, you seem to be suggesting that the "industry" came into existence in order to create a demand for the industry? Wouldn't it have been more lucrative (and easier and quicker) simply to produce modern versions of the instruments? And, again, where is your evidence that any "moderately paid Musician" is being "pressured" to buy these instruments? Are you seriously trying to suggest that any freelance professional orchestral Musician is being bullied into buying these "extra instruments"? Really? (Your own experience doesn't bear this out, by the way - you were given advice, but you made your own decision and the salesperson took your money with a smile. No bullying/pressure involved from your description.)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Most bullying is verbal, e.g. putting others down, assuming the moral high ground, etc., rather than the extreme examples quoted. Put a group of music students together, and ask them to discuss HIPP and then stand back and observe.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Most bullying is verbal, e.g. putting others down, assuming the moral high ground, etc., rather than the extreme examples quoted. Put a group of music students together, and ask them to discuss HIPP and then stand back and observe.

Well, yes. But put a group of students/Librarians/teenagers/Church Wardens ... together and ask them to discuss Beyonce, Nick Clegg, James Corden, Jeremy Clarkson, Islam, the Eurovision Song Contest ... then stand back and observe. It is human nature to argue passionately, to share intensely held beliefs, to have a right good barney ... but "putting others down, assuming the high ground etc" isn't bullying if the "puttee-down" isn't impressed by what the putter-down is saying, or if they regard the other's "moral ground" to be lower than their own.

Take Andante, for example. Is it brickbat-hurling to suggest that some people walk faster than others, or assuming the moral high ground to suggest that "walking" isn't really an accurate translation of the Italian? That "going" is a better English equivalent? Is it "putting others down" to point out that Leopold Mozart wrote that Andante "has much in common with Allegretto ... " (which is) "pleasant, charming, neat and playful". (And was Leopold "bullying" when he declared that Allegretto "must therefore be performed in a pleasing, amusing and playful manner"?) And if performers have decided that a brisk walk is what is suggested by Andante, could not the description of their decision as "a quick jog" be taken as "putting them down"?



By the way, that Bohm video is absolutely gorgeous, isn't it!

[David-G]

Then why come on a thread specifically about Mozart to say this again?”

I can and I have! It's called an opinion, freedom of speech.

I don’t like RVW. I have always felt that this is my failing; I would not try to persuade others to that opinion. Consequently, I feel no temptation to visit threads such as “Paul Ladmirault - a composer for all who like RVW, Bax et al” and post a message that I don’t like RVW.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Well, yes. But put a group of students/Librarians/teenagers/Church Wardens ... together and ask them to discuss Beyonce, Nick Clegg, James Corden, Jeremy Clarkson, Islam, the Eurovision Song Contest ... then stand back and observe. It is human nature to argue passionately, to share intensely held beliefs, to have a right good...

I think Peter Gammond got it right in his "Bluff your way in music".

"There are four composers who are beyond criticism - Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, and your own particular favourite. To attempt to criticise one of these would be as fruitless as saying Shakespeare was a poor dramatist....

"There is no need to say that you admire Beethoven or Mozart because this is assumed. Bach is a slightly different matter - see below.As for your own choice, you will have to defend him with your life, for once people know you have a passion for anything they will do their best to destroy it."

[Sir Velo]

I can and I have! It's called an opinion, freedom of speech.

You might call it that: others might call it being an unconscionable bore.

[verismissimo]

The late, much lamented Patrick O'Connor chose the Pritchard Glyndebourne Figaro as one of the best ever videos - so I bought it and have scarcely watched it. Why not? It has an unmatchable cast with Te Kanawa, von Stade, Cotrubas and Luxon amongst others. Couldn't equal that at Glyndebourne these days. I think the problem is that fundamentally I'd rather either be there or listen to a sound recording.

[pastoralguy]

The late, much lamented Patrick O'Connor chose the Pritchard Glyndebourne Figaro as one of the best ever videos - so I bought it and have scarcely watched it. Why not? It has an unmatchable cast with Te Kanawa, von Stade, Cotrubas and Luxon amongst others. Couldn't equal that at Glyndebourne these days. I think the problem is that fundamentally I'd rather either be there or listen to a sound recording.

I remember taping this from the tv as a teenager and watching it ad naseum. It truly was a wonderful cast and is responsible for this being the one work I would take to a desert island.

[martin_opera]

I remember a few years back in the Gramophone Collection Richard Lawrence chose the Glynebourne DVD with Bernard Haitink, Gerald Finley and Renee Fleming as not only the top DVD but also the overall best recording of the piece. I like the performance on a par with the ROHCG.

Am currently enjoying the Teodor Currentzis recording and as well as the DG Bohm, Gardiner and Jacobs I have a real love of Colin Davis' second go in Bavaria with Julia Varady and Helen Donath (word to the wise - there is one highlights disc for 1p on amazon at the moment!!).

[Flosshilde]

Thanks for reminding us that you don't like Mozart. Again. Of course, the thread title should have alerted you to its contents.

Another shining example of your pomposity, nogs.

[Flosshilde]

Most bullying is verbal, e.g. putting others down, assuming the moral high ground,

Isn't this what you were doing?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Isn't this what you were doing?

Moi?

Just trying to balance things a little.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Just trying to balance thongs a little.

... creating an image I'd prefer to be without before teatime!

[verismissimo]

Another shining example of your pomposity, nogs.

Steady on, Flossie. Isn't that what these boards are for?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... creating an image I'd prefer to be without before teatime!