Building a Library - General Discussion

[Barbirollians]

The last solo BAL as I recall was Shostakovich’s Piano Quintet - 30th March 2019.

[vinteuil]

Surely we should have an I Wish Morning Radio 3 Was Like It Used To Be thread ...

... surely the rot set in with the French Revolution



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[Ein Heldenleben]

... surely the rot set in with the French Revolution



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To paraphrase the words of Ho Chi Minh isn’t it too early to tell...?

[vinteuil]

To paraphrase the words of Ho Chi Minh isn’t it too early to tell...?

... a sad pedant (moi?) might want here to spoil a good story by letting the facts get in the way -

https://chinadigitaltimes.net/2011/06/zhou-enlais-caution-lost-in-translation/

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[Ein Heldenleben]

... a pedant (moi?) might want to let facts get in the way of a good story -

https://chinadigitaltimes.net/2011/06/zhou-enlais-caution-lost-in-translation/

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Yes I knew the quote was apocryphal but had forgotten who’d said it. It’s the sort of quote you really want to be true isn’t it? Even though the French Revolution did have an immediate and profound impact....better stop as this will otherwise bumped to another thread...f
I once repeated the Britten quote that “ the rot set in with Beethoven “ to a Catholic musician friend who replied “No, it started with Palestrina” ...

[cloughie]

Surely we should have an I Wish Morning Radio 3 Was Like It Used To Be thread ..... that would test Rumpole’s moving skills ....

The forum doesn’t go back to 1975!

[Barbirollians]

Yes I knew the quote was apocryphal but had forgotten who’d said it. It’s the sort of quote you really want to be true isn’t it? Even though the French Revolution did have an immediate and profound impact....better stop as this will otherwise bumped to another thread...f
I once repeated the Britten quote that “ the rot set in with Beethoven “ to a Catholic musician friend who replied “No, it started with Palestrina” ...

Wasn't it attributed to Zhou Enlai ? Mao's Foreign Minster ?

Oh I see - that China Digital Times story is a shame .

[Bryn]

Wasn't it attributed to Zhou Enlai ? Mao's Foreign Minster ?

Indeed, as vinteuil's link makes clear.

[crb11]

Having said that, I still think there is a place on Radio 3 for a comparative review programme that helps give guidance to those in the same position as I was 50 years ago but the BaL format as it stands now isn't it. Perhaps an 'Interpretations on Record' kind of programme, taken out of 'Record Review', without the concept of a 'winner' and given to a broadcaster with some authority on the work might fulfil these requirements?

For the benefit of those of us not old enough to remember Interpretations on Record, could you flesh out what your proposed format would look like in practice, perhaps taking a core classical piece like the Mozart piano concerto recently covered on BAL as an example. I can see the obvious benefits of a single presenter with expertise, but in what other ways would it differ from BAL in its current form?

[Nick Armstrong]

better stop as this will otherwise bumped to another thread...

[Nick Armstrong]

...So I woke up to find I'd started a thread, when I never, your honour: I been fitted up!

Well not any more! I suddenly recalled a seam of format-related comments in the Schumann 3 BAL thread and have moved those too, with the result that the thread starter now appears as EA

[Ein Heldenleben]

For the benefit of those of us not old enough to remember Interpretations on Record, could you flesh out what your proposed format would look like in practice, perhaps taking a core classical piece like the Mozart piano concerto recently covered on BAL as an example. I can see the obvious benefits of a single presenter with expertise, but in what other ways would it differ from BAL in its current form?

If I remember correctly IOR , like quite a few other programmes on R3 in the seventies , assumed a greater knowledge of the rudiments of music. The problem , as I must be boring people rigid repeating , is that producers can no longer make those assumptions. It’s a bit of a circular argument because you can then say it’s the job of R3 to educate people but these days people are just a bit too inclined to switch over and there is vastly more choice out there.

Here’s an example of IOR from the 60’s . This would have been worth hearing


A monthly programme in which different interpretations on gramophone records are compared
DERYCK COOKE discusses Strauss's Don Quixote as recorded by Fournier and Krauss. Frank Miller and Toscanini. Tortelier and Beecham, Tortelier and Kempe, and others. The programme also discusses the two recordings made by the composer himself with Mainardi and Uhl

Part of the “problem” is that , at the risk of sounding like F.R. Leavis , the “culture” that created musicologist/journalist allrounders like Deryck Cooke doesn’t exist any more. It’s been annexed by Academia on the one hand and indifferent broadsheet journalism on the other.

[kernelbogey]

[A] The sheer volume of recordings of the classical repertoire now available renders the entire format of BaL as outdated and absurd. How can a 45 minute slot on, say, a Tchaikovsky or Beethoven symphony come to any meaningful conclusion about a 'winner'?

[B] Having said that, I still think there is a place on Radio 3 for a comparative review programme that helps give guidance to those in the same position as I was 50 years ago but the BaL format as it stands now isn't it. Perhaps an 'Interpretations on Record' kind of programme, taken out of 'Record Review', without the concept of a 'winner' and given to a broadcaster with some authority on the work might fulfil these requirements?

I agree with both statements. In addition, re A, I have long felt sceptical about the notion of a 'winner' - i.e. some sort of ideal performance. Indeed reviewers increasingly discount such a concept.

Re B I have also been thinking that some version of the old Rob Cowan programme - can't remember its name - would also do a similar job to Interpretations on Record. (The Rob 'n' Jonathan twofers were, IIRC, informative and entertaining.)

[gurnemanz]

BaL is of variable value and necessarily limited in scope but I still usually find it worth listening to despite irksome twofer format.
Their Excel database of over 800 editions, which I have only just discovered, (downloadable here) is well produced and quite useful.

[Bryn]

BaL is of variable value and necessarily limited in scope but I still usually find it worth listening to despite irksome twofer format.
Their Excel database of over 800 editions, which I have only just discovered, (downloadable here) is well produced and quite useful.

Thanks for the tip. Opens (eventually) in Open Office. The most recent BaL in the spreadsheet is that for Ravel's String Quartet of March 14th, last year.