BaL 26.04.14 - Haydn Symphony no. 101 "Clock"

[Dave2002]

The Minkowski version seemed much more dynamic to me - and was in the final three. Sounded much more like live performances - which they were.

Certainly a very interesting version, allbeit with a few idiosyncriacies - a very fast trio for example.

http://www.amazon.com/Haydn-London-Symphonies-Wiener-Konzerthaus/dp/B0036FOV4W

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/aug/01/haydn-12-london-symphonies-minkowski

[MLF]

The Abbado version is included in his symphonies box set, which I expect to arrive any day now:-

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BN1QV0S

I feel it is one of life's little victories when you find that you already own (or are about to own) a BAL selection.

[Tony Halstead]

I find it quite intolerable when a reviewer immediately plays an 'old instruments' extract at a low pitch e.g. A 430 immediately after a modern one at A 440 or in some cases even higher ( e.g. in most German orchestras where modern pitch can be as high as A 445).
I just makes you feel queasy, but more seriously, the downwards pitch-lurch subliminally bolsters the prejudice ( held by some) that 'old instruments' are always 'out of tune' or as A. Previn famously and notoriously put it " perfectly out of tune".
Talking of 'modern instruments' and their so-called 'evolution in pursuit of perfection', it was quite shocking to hear so many bassoonists in famous modern-instrument orchestras, struggling with the tuning of their instruments - nearly always too sharp.
Surely the producer of this and similar programmes in which 'H.I.P.P.' and 'modern' recordings are played, could suggest to the reviewer that all the chosen low pitch recordings could be played consecutively, and of course a similar policy operated for the modern recordings.
What, if anything, would be the problem with this, since we already know that these days an intelligent reviewer ( as was the case here) is going to come up with two final recommendations, one from each 'performing camp'?

[edashtav]

What a shame that Abbado "fell" for Haydn's sleeping strings joke in the trio and "corrected" it. Haydn must be chortling in his grave. I do hope that the two of them have a "get together" in heaven. I love Abbado in Haydn, thouugh. And that extremist Minkowski. I can see Tony's point about how queasy A430 makes one feel after A440(+) but I feel that we must bear with it for it's important to get the A/B immediate comparisons between "old" & "new". I was pleased that Eugen Jochum (Mk II, BBC Legends) got an honourable mention.

A good, thoughtful BaL and a fair result.

[amateur51]

...having reminded myself of that complete set of the Baryton Trios, I have just found the 21 disc set for £18 on Amazon and snapped it up!

Oh well done MickyD, you've been havering over making that decision for several years to my certain knowledge - I hope you enjoy them

[BBMmk2]

the trouble when a conductor passes away, or there is a celebratory event, a lot of the music that is included in an antho;pgy, you already have!! Grr!! :(

[MickyD]

Oh well done MickyD, you've been havering over making that decision for several years to my certain knowledge - I hope you enjoy them

Thanks, ams...you are right, I have been hesitating for ages, but at that price, I just couldn't resist. I presume you have got them already?

[Sir Velo]

105 postings and it's still three days until the broadcast.

And about 3 on the actual BAL itself.

[Thropplenoggin]

And about 3 on the actual BAL itself.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Was Minkowski the HIPP pick? I know Abbado got the final (modern) one.

[visualnickmos]

I'm going to stick with Colin Davis.

I was actually surprised at the massive range of differing performances/interpretations of this work. Funny how some works have a relatively 'narrow' aspect in how they are handled, and other works appear to have an infinity of approaches. What is it that causes this to be the case, I wonder?

[Dave2002]

Was Minkowski the HIPP pick? I know Abbado got the final (modern) one.

Yes, and I can probably live without hearing too many of the "modern" performances. I guess the music can stand a lot of different styles and performances, but I did feel more immediacy from Minkowski than most of the others. Oddly though, early on Klemperer was dismissed as being far to slow, yet I was actually enoying that. I do wonder what speed a lot of symphonies were actually played at in the years of their composition. I rather feel that many orchestras of the time may not have been able to play at the speeds which present day performers can manage, and that includes today's "authentic" performers playing on "period" instruments.

[Thropplenoggin]

Yes, and I can probably live without hearing too many of the "modern" performances. I guess the music can stand a lot of different styles and performances, but I did feel more immediacy from Minkowski than most of the others. Oddly though, early on Klemperer was dismissed as being far to slow, yet I was actually enoying that. I do wonder what speed a lot of symphonies were actually played at in the years of their composition. I rather feel that many orchestras of the time may not have been able to play at the speeds which present day performers can manage, and that includes today's "authentic" performers playing on "period" instruments.

A very salient point. The unravelling of Sir Nozza's Weltanschauung is imminent. How will our Bryn cope?

[aeolium]

I rather feel that many orchestras of the time may not have been able to play at the speeds which present day performers can manage, and that includes today's "authentic" performers playing on "period" instruments.

Yes, and I wonder too whether the fairly hurried speeds at which C18 minuets (and trios) are often played really correspond to the speeds Haydn's audiences would have known - the minuet did after all originate as a stately court dance, and would the aristocrats and gentry for which Haydn was writing have expected a court dance to be played at such a speed? I thought Minkowski was just too fast in this movement, and the Harnoncourt extracts reminded me why I rarely hear any performance of his - at least in classical works - that does not irritate me in some way.

I was impressed by the Abbado, but also by the Jochum which I would have liked to hear more of (it was given an honourable mention in MD's final short list of 3, after the Abbado and Minkowski).

[Bryn]

A very salient point. The unravelling of Sir Nozza's Weltanschauung is imminent. How will our Bryn cope?

What anyone "rather feel[s]", is pretty irrelevant, surely? Let's know the evidence against. My guess is that it will boil down to the equivalent of "Beethoven got his metronome marks wrong", i.e. a load of poppycock.