BaL 12.04.14 - Schubert: Impromptus D899

[amateur51]

'Because they always sound like s#it'.

Maybe he's using the wrong stool?

Evidence of my ears when listening to Messrs Staier, Brautigam, Lubimov, Rittner, Bezuidenhout, Badura-Skoda and Viviana Sofronitzky** for example tells me that this generalisation is simply not true. But Perahia and other Steinways Babes would have to learn afresh how to play the earlier instruments in order that they should not sound like that, perhaps?

I'm grateful to live in an age in which I can listen to both sides of the debate at home at relatively low outlay and enjoy the best of both worlds, which would include Mr Perahia on his Steinway

** and not forgetting Peter Katin on the Clementi fortepiano as heard on this morning's BaL

[Barbirollians]

MP has a point but I would substitute frequently for always !

[LeMartinPecheur]

Been away from these boreds for a week or so, missed most of Bal this AM so probably am not in a very good position to contribute but...

Doesn't the fp/pf 'battle' depend rather on the type of recreated performance one wants to recapture? Bear in mind that when Schubert wrote these works the piano recital hadn't yet been invented. So, do we imagine (want to experience) Schubert himself playing them to an intimate salon audience, or Liszt - or some more recent piano virtuoso - projecting them to a much larger audience in a public hall?

For most of us, the experience of D780 has been in the latter format, so that it is perfectly reasonable to seek a similar experience on record with modern piano. But it's equally reasonable to want to recreate - as closely as possible - the Schubertiade experience, in which case the fortepiano is surely essential.

[visualnickmos]

** and not forgetting Peter Katin on the Clementi fortepiano as heard on this morning's BaL

Much as Peter Katin's playing was impeccable - the piano - or should I say "forte" did sound rather as though it was on loan from the "Dog and Ferret" for the night.

[gradus]

Funnily enough I anticipated that my reaction would be the same but I actually enjoyed the piano sound and the playing was wonderful and made me want to hear Peter Katin in the others.
Didn't much care for the excerpt from the Curzon performance though it was nothing to do with the piano and I thought Mr Philip a little harsh on Claudio Arrau. Altogether though a fascinating and very well presented BAL.

[visualnickmos]

.....and the playing was wonderful and made me want to hear Peter Katin in the others.
.....I thought Mr Philip a little harsh on Claudio Arrau. Altogether though a fascinating and very well presented BAL.

Agreed.

[David-G]

Much as Peter Katin's playing was impeccable - the piano - or should I say "forte" did sound rather as though it was on loan from the "Dog and Ferret" for the night.

Not at all. It sounded delightful.

While the "singing" tone of the modern piano is undoubtedly very attractive, the fortepiano's capacity for clearer articulation, and its increased clarity in the bass register, are very winning characteristics.

[David-G]

And they were always bitching and moaning about their limitations. They were always on the lookout for the latest model, always pestering manufacturers to make improvements.

Beethoven was always bitching and moaning about the piano's limitations. I am not aware that Schubert was.

[waldo]

Not at all. It sounded delightful.

If you finds that "delightful", you must also find the sound of a really bad modern piano "delightful", too, because that is just what Katin's sounds like: a cheap 1940s upright that had fallen into disrepair and been left to warp in the sun.

Serious question: are we really sure they sounded like this? I know we have surviving models from this area, but dear Lord, were they really so awful? Are we sure we know exactly how to replicate them and reproduce the materials and so on?

I don't mind the ones that sound like harpsichords. I have a recording of Schiff playing on Mozart's own piano and that, while not exactly my cup of tea, is still a pleasant sound. I can understand the attraction of that. It's the ones that sound as if they have come from a Western saloon with bullet holes in the sound-board I don't understand.........

[mikealdren]

Beethoven was always bitching and moaning about the piano's limitations. I am not aware that Schubert was.

We would expect Beethoven to be more demanding as a performer because Beethoven was a virtuoso pianist, one of the finest of his day whereas Schubert wasn't; he reputedly couldn't play his Wanderer Fantasy.

Mike

[amateur51]

Funnily enough I anticipated that my reaction would be the same but I actually enjoyed the piano sound and the playing was wonderful and made me want to hear Peter Katin in the others.

Me too - it was a lovely surprise, so much so that I've lashed out & ordered the CD.

I don't know if he still reads these messages, but I've always had Peter Katin down as a 'big' player and this recording has shown me his versatility and his inquisitiveness and willingness to explore musical alternatives - bravo!

[aeolium]

There are some reasonably-sized examples of the Katin set to listen to on the prestoclassical site (and also from the op 142 set):

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Divine%2BArt/24112#listen

[waldo]

There are some reasonably-sized examples of the Katin set to listen to on the prestoclassical site (and also from the op 142 set):

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/D...t/24112#listen

For those of you interested in Katin, you might also want to invest in this.

[kea]

he reputedly couldn't play his Wanderer Fantasy.

Not the easiest piece, to be fair; many modern virtuoso pianists can't play it either... (or at least skimp on the octaves)

[Nick Armstrong]

Peter Katin - illustrated - and highly recommended. Lubimov mentioned but not played.

Had another listen to this as I did get distracted yesterday first time round and indeed missed this single allusion to "the two" recordings on period instruments.

That square piano wasn't quite 'Lone Star Saloon' quality but I'm not sure I could listen to it other than for curiosity Great playing by PK though!

Amazing how wrong Kempff got that fourth Impromptu - mechanical with the clipped, unexpressive last staccato And it reminded me how I've never sympathised with Arrau's way with music (ditto Zimerman).

I did love Curzon's fleeting, nervy approach I've acquired the Radu Lupu which I didn't know, placing confidence in Robert Philip's judgment, but fear I'll find it over-careful, tempo-wise... Time will tell.