BaL 12.04.14 - Schubert: Impromptus D899

[Sir Velo]

It should be borne in mind that the modern pianoforte is not capable of producing all the effects which Schubert and his contemporaries would have expected from the performance of their compositions. Consequently, although the FP cannot sustain a singing line in the way that a modern concert grand can, it has its compensations, particularly in its attack. Fortunately, we are in the position where we can choose. I shall be equally happy listening to Staier (fp) and Lupu/Brendel/Uchida (pf) in this repertoire.

[verismissimo]

[COLOR="#0000FF"]That's the argument that's always persuaded me - coupled with the fact that I enjoy the sound of (certain) modern pianos FAR more and they seem to me to bring out far more of what's in the music.

Why either/or? I prefer both/and.

[Nick Armstrong]

Why either/or? I prefer both/and.

Indeed - "more" in my message was relative, not absolute

Occasionally, with the RIGHT fortepiano and player, it is good to hear this music done in a manner which vinteuil would relish!

[Daniel]

The knowledge alone that one is hearing music more or less as the composer did, certainly adds something to the immediacy of the connection for me. Composers clearly write for the instruments they know (even if they dream of others) - one doesn't imagine Bartok or Prokofiev would have written the music they did if piano had not evolved from Schubert's time for example, so it seems wrong to say that Schubert sounds better on a modern piano, only that many ears are only now used to hearing it played on one. But I very much enjoy listening to Schubert on both modern and older forms of the piano

[amateur51]

The knowledge alone that one is hearing music more or less as the composer did, certainly adds something to the immediacy of the connection for me. Composers clearly write for the instruments they know (even if they dream of others) - one doesn't imagine Bartok or Prokofiev would have written the music they did if piano had not evolved from Schubert's time for example, so it seems wrong to say that Schubert sounds better on a modern piano, only that many ears are only now used to hearing it played on one. But I very much enjoy listening to Schubert on both modern and older forms of the piano

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... so it seems wrong to say that Schubert sounds better on a modern piano, only that many ears are only now used to hearing it played on one.

This is the old guilt thing again. Let's just suppose that is does sound better to you or to me. Do we keep this to ourselves out a feeling of duty to the sounds of the past, or do we thank our good fortune that we don't have to?

...one doesn't imagine Bartok or Prokofiev would have written the music they did if piano had not evolved from Schubert's time for example

This argument crops up from time to time, but it doesn't really add up. Some instruments have changed little since Schubert's time (orchestra strings an the human voice), but the music composed for them is vastly different.

[amateur51]

This is the old guilt thing again. Let's just suppose that is does sound better to you or to me. Do we keep this to ourselves out a feeling of duty to the sounds of the past, or do we thank our good fortune that we don't have to?

You do talk some gollocks (as Archie Andrews might say) sometimes EA old thing

We are living in a golden age in which there are fine artists playing Schubert and other composers on 'original' instruments (and copies thereof) and on modern concert grands and many of them have made recordings to which we can listen in the comfort of our homes.

Guilt (about what?!?) need not come into it - just listen and enjoy what you like

Simples.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Guilt (about what?!?) need not come into it - just listen and enjoy what you like

I don't disagree, but Daniel did say "so it seems wrong to say that Schubert sounds better on a modern piano", as though it is wrong to think it or to express the view.

[amateur51]

I don't disagree, but Daniel did say "so it seems wrong to say that Schubert sounds better on a modern piano", as though it is wrong to think it or to express the view.

I read Daniel as saying wrong = inaccurate.

[Daniel]

This is the old guilt thing again. Let's just suppose that is does sound better to you or to me. Do we keep this to ourselves out a feeling of duty to the sounds of the past, or do we thank our good fortune that we don't have to?

I'm not sure how guilt crept in there, I certainly didn't mean to suggest that anybody should feel bad about enjoying the sound of Schubert on a modern piano - I do very much! - only that I didn't think it is right to describe it as better.

This argument crops up from time to time, but it doesn't really add up. Some instruments have changed little since Schubert's time (orchestra strings an the human voice), but the music composed for them is vastly different.

I'm not saying it wouldn't have been different to music of that era, but in the case of Bartok and Prokofiev for example I don't think they would have written the (piano) music that they did.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm not sure how guilt crept in there, I certainly didn't mean to suggest that anybody should feel bad about enjoying the sound of Schubert on a modern piano - I do very much! - only that I didn't think it is right to describe it as better.
……...
I'm not saying it wouldn't have been different to music of that era, but in the case of Bartok and Prokofiev for example I don't think they would have written the (piano) music that they did.

Maybe I've become paranoid about the guilt thing. It crops up witt some BaL presenters from time to time, e.g. "You really shouldn't be listening to this…" Your own comments are eminently reasonable.

[amateur51]

Maybe I've become paranoid about the guilt thing. It crops up witt some BaL presenters from time to time, e.g. "You really shouldn't be listening to this…" Your own comments are eminently reasonable.

No BaL reviewer has ever said this EA - your "maybe" is looking superfluous

[Bryn]

On a modern iron frame grand, I gain particular delight from Lili Kraus's recording of this set. Otherwise, it's Jan Vermeulen (playing a superbly restored 1826 Nannette Streicher instrument) for me.

[Just noticed the Kraus is not included in the OP list. I only bought it recently as part of the "Big Schubert Box" download (from amazon). It's still available from them (13+ hours of often very fine Schubert recordings for the princely sum of £9.39]

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

No BaL reviewer has ever said this EA - your "maybe" is looking superfluous

That's a very bold statement, which happens to be quite untrue. Check the Faure BaLs.

[Barbirollians]

I am afraid ams I am with EA on this . There have been all manner of BALs which have simply wiped older or non HIPP performances - Roy Goodman's notorious Beethoven Violin Concerto BAL being one of them .