BaL 29.03.14 - Copland's Appalachian Spring

[Flosshilde]

The download market is presumably driven by people wanting pop music which is characterised by songs or tracks of short duration, doesn't usually come with much, if any written information, and is fairly ephemeral. What works for that doesn't suit classical music.

[Bryn]

I have had to buy downloads on occasions. As you say, it isn't difficult, but it puts the owner on the purchaser to faff about burning a CD, printing a cover and notes (if available) all for a sonically inferior product, with unwarranted gaps in the music. which cannot be removed entirely in some instances.

Yes, I quite often find extraneous (if silent) data at the start and end of commercial downloads of mp3s. Sometimes there is also a little missing at the cusp. Usually, however, I finds a few minutes with Mp3DirectCut will allow the removal of the spurious data and the copying and pasting of separate movements/'tracks' into continuous playback mp3s of complete works.

[waldo]

The download market is presumably driven by people wanting pop music which is characterised by songs or tracks of short duration, doesn't usually come with much, if any written information, and is fairly ephemeral. What works for that doesn't suit classical music.

Without wishing to be rude or presumptuous, I suspect it is a generational 'thing', rather than a pop vs classical dynamic. CDs are on their way out, whether we like it or not. Everyone in the very near future will have to buy/rent their music in digital forms - and that goes for classical music fans, too. I haven't bought a CD for several years. For me, there isn't any point: the physical CD is just hassle and bulk I could do well without. My digital collection is on tap whenever I want it, and so is the information that comes with the recordings. No storage problems; no CD deterioration or damage to worry about; no time wasted searching for them. There was, I admit, a time when I still felt that there was something superior about an actual CD, but not anymore. The fetish for tangibility seems to evaporate once you get used to the digital way of doing things.

[Suffolkcoastal]

Petermark, the MTT orchestral version is not exactly the same as the Copland chamber version and does include extra music before the Shaker variations, these extra bits are all quite short but seem to largely follow the ballet video as available danced by Graham. The video is available on youtube and quite moving and beautiful it is too.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Without wishing to be rude or presumptuous, I suspect it is a generational 'thing', rather than a pop vs classical dynamic. CDs are on their way out, whether we like it or not. Everyone in the very near future will have to buy/rent their music in digital forms - and that goes for classical music fans, too. I haven't bought a CD for several years. For me, there isn't any point: the physical CD is just hassle and bulk I could do well without. My digital collection is on tap whenever I want it, and so is the information that comes with the recordings. No storage problems; no CD deterioration or damage to worry about; no time wasted searching for them. There was, I admit, a time when I still felt that there was something superior about an actual CD, but not anymore. The fetish for tangibility seems to evaporate once you get used to the digital way of doing things.

Personally I like digital music. That's why I buy CDs. Nothing analogue about them

[waldo]

Personally I like digital music. That's why I buy CDs. Nothing analogue about them

Nice one, EA.

[Don Petter]

I have had to buy downloads on occasions. As you say, it isn't difficult, but it puts the owner on the purchaser to faff about burning a CD, printing a cover and notes (if available) all for a sonically inferior product, with unwarranted gaps in the music, which cannot be removed entirely in some instances.

The gaps can always be removed by using an audio editor, such as you would use, for instance, to compose and burn a CD-R of composite recordings. (I use EAC, but there are many others, I'm sure.)

I'm not arguing against your observations in general about downloads not suiting everybody, but I don't think others should be put off by suggestions of inevitable gaps. My main gripe about downloads (since I don't mind the assembling and burning) is the apparent widespread lack of accompanying notes, or even track listings. I don't think one should have to search sites such as Amazon or Presto, in the hope that they are listing the tracks for the same CD.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The gaps can always be removed by using an audio editor, such as you would use, for instance, to compose and burn a CD-R of composite recordings. (I use EAC, but there are many others, I'm sure.)

Even doing this there can be the smallest of stutters on some recordings. I'm not talking about the cough and splutter that still occurs on the CD players on the less expensive Volkswagen cars. Ironically, on the models that have the RCD510, which does not have this problem when playing CDs, the mp3/iPod option goes too far the other way and actually shaves a bit off the music when tracks change in continuous music. Sometimes it seems that you just can't win.

[Don Petter]

Even doing this there can be the smallest of stutters on some recordings. I'm not talking about the cough and splutter that still occurs on the CD players on the less expensive Volkswagen cars. Ironically, on the models that have the RCD510, which does not have this problem when playing CDs, the mp3/iPod option goes too far the other way and actually shaves a bit off the music when tracks change in continuous music. Sometimes it seems that you just can't win.

With EAC you can magnify the waveform until you are seeing the individual samples if you want! I've just looked at a file magnified so that you can still see the waveform, and one second in time occupies some six inches in the display. This should enable you to play, check and edit out the smallest of audible gaps.

If music has been shaved off, that is a different matter.

All in all, as you rightly say, a big faff!

[Nick Armstrong]

I played on the Aaron Copland/ LSO recording that must have been done in the early 1970s ( in EMI Abbey Road Studio No 1) .
I remember that we did three complete 'takes' of the piece. On the last / 3rd one I 'split' 2 notes ( high C# as an accompaniment to the lovely 'simple gifts' Shaker tune)... guess what... the record producer ( the legendary Paul Myers maybe?) in the final 'mix' must have ignored the horn splits and authorised that 'take' to go on the 'end product'.

I do have the CD of that recording and although I hardly ever listen to it ( although I love the piece) I will always 'cringe' when listening, in anticipation of my inept contribution - although in truth the 'problem' lasts for about 2 seconds!

I find that yours is one of the two I have on the shelf - must listen out ! (I also have Hugh Wolff and the St Paul CO which didn't get a mention on the programme - but I was glad to see mention of it above, perhaps its disappearance* from the catalogue is why it wasn't mentioned rather than any reflection of its quality... )

I really enjoyed that review. Lots of interesting observations and some great excerpts.

I enjoyed it too. With the clarinet concerto, this is the Copland piece I'm glad to hear when it's on (in contradistinction to most of the other popular ones). I'm pretty clear in my mind that the 'big orchestra' treatment does the music a disservice, the conclusion to which Copland appears to have come.

On the download issue, I'm a classical music lover that is now much more likely to buy high quality downloads than CDs, now that a small bit of kit allows me to play them through my main hifi. Just bought the 'studio master' download of the Gardner Mendelssohn disc on Chandos - having converted to ALAC (as iTunes doesn't accept FLAC ), it sounds epic on the hifi. I don't miss not having the physical CD. I wish I was starting a music collection now, in fact - facing decorations this summer and the prospect of removing / dusting / storing / replacing all the CDs isn't a happy one. (Actually I'm going to employ a young relative to do it )


* Actually, the Wolff seems to be available in at least two forms, inc the one I've got http://www.amazon.co.uk/Appalachian-...spring+copland

[ucanseetheend]

download link

Where is the recommendation ,Coplands Columbia Chamber version with commentary, to download as Macregor said it was on BAL, I cant find a link anywhere, not Sony,Amazon and itunes. a very nice long Copland interview here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnWNjd00_ek

[HighlandDougie]

As Qobuz now seems to be UK-friendly, try this link:

http://www.qobuz.com/album/aaron-copland-a-copland-celebration-vol-i/5099708932329

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

If you want a brand new CD pressing of the recommended recording...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B000050HWS/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

[Bryn]

If you want a brand new CD pressing of the recommended recording...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-lis...&condition=new

I got mine (Used - Very Good) for £4.69 + £1.26 p&p via the amazon.co.uk marketplace just under a year ago. Such are the vagaries of the marketplace.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I ordered a 2nd hand copy from Amazon immediately after the programme, before prices shot up. Regrettably it appears to be lost in the post.