Bargains

[gurnemanz]

Some of this could prove heavy on the wallet unless of course the duplication issue comes to the rescue.
https://www.jpc.de/s/Box-Sets+um+50%...e=campaigntext

From hafod's jpc box bargains link I have had for a while and would heartily recommend Edita Gruberova, Edda Moser, Brahms Choral Works, Christa Ludwig.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The Brahms Choral* Works box was heartily recommended by teamsaint, too, a couple of years ago - inspired by which, I bought a copy. It is utterly wonderful.

(* = here meaning the works for choir with minimal accompaniment or none. Delightful works.)

[Dave2002]

Some of this could prove heavy on the wallet unless of course the duplication issue comes to the rescue.
https://www.jpc.de/s/Box-Sets+um+50%...e=campaigntext

Has anyone tried the Bruggen Mozart box for about 20 Euros? I wonder what the Vesperae solennes de confessore performance is like.

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/wolfgang-amadeus-mozart-frans-brueggen-dirigiert-mozart/hnum/1922299

Looks to me as though for that work Hogwood and Pinnock are pretty much top of the pile - and I have sampled those already. I'd really like a good version of that work.

I wonder also if this Baroque box - https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/det...s/hnum/1520123 from Sony is just a repackaging of some which I have already.

[Mark Meldon]

Furtwangler bargains!

If anyone is interested in Wilhelm Furtwangler's recordings on Tahra, noting that these are astronomically expensive on sites like Amazon, the French Furtwangler Society is selling lots of them off for between €3 and €9 each! That's an amazing bargain. I ordered 24 titles on Bank Holiday Monday. They have not arrived yet, but I am sure they will. Total cost was about £112, including postage, many of the sets listed on Amazon go for lots more than that individually! My experience with Tahra transfers are that, generally, they are excellent with interesting (if not very idiomatic) booklets. If you like the conductor and the music, this has to be the best bargain I have found in absolutely ages!

Go to www.furtwangler.org and click on Newsletter. Available until end of June or until stocks are depleted.

[pastoralguy]

The Brahms Choral* Works box was heartily recommended by teamsaint, too, a couple of years ago - inspired by which, I bought a copy. It is utterly wonderful.

(* = here meaning the works for choir with minimal accompaniment or none. Delightful works.)

Is that the one on Brilliant Classics, ferney? If so, I have it and there's some wonderful music in it.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Is that the one on Brilliant Classics, ferney? If so, I have it and there's some wonderful music in it.

That's the one - and you're right, there is (and to ts, too!)

[Barbirollians]

Furtwangler bargains!

If anyone is interested in Wilhelm Furtwangler's recordings on Tahra, noting that these are astronomically expensive on sites like Amazon, the French Furtwangler Society is selling lots of them off for between €3 and €9 each! That's an amazing bargain. I ordered 24 titles on Bank Holiday Monday. They have not arrived yet, but I am sure they will. Total cost was about £112, including postage, many of the sets listed on Amazon go for lots more than that individually! My experience with Tahra transfers are that, generally, they are excellent with interesting (if not very idiomatic) booklets. If you like the conductor and the music, this has to be the best bargain I have found in absolutely ages!

Go to www.furtwangler.org and click on Newsletter. Available until end of June or until stocks are depleted.

Bargains indeed - I have rather a lot already - the Legendary Concert box , however, is stupendous and includes the 1952 Eroica described by Rob Cowan as the best recording of the Eroica of all time , the 1954 Philharmonia Lucerne 9th , that Hamburg Brahms 1 we were discussing the other day and a lovely coupling of Beethoven 5 and 6 .

[Dave2002]

Have they improved the bit rates? These used to be quite low - 170-225 IIRC

I have only recently checked some of these. Some are around 227kbps, others even up to 320 kbps. I'd have to do a larger sampling to get the full range - pity I can't just do it automatically!

Bit rates only tell part of the story, though. If a recording isn't much good anyway, then encoding it in mp3 is probably going to make it sound worse, though how much worse may be a matter for debate. It is even possible, though unlikely, that the mp3 encoding could mask some faults.

OTOH a really good recording could be spoiled by poor mp3 encoding. I do believe that most people would have difficulty detecting the difference between a 256 kbps mp3 which has been well encoded, and the original. Some people with very acute hearing, or very good equipment may find it easier to hear problems. Where things can also go wrong is in the quality settings for the encoder. It is possible to get good or acceptable encodings at a given bit rate if the highest quality settings are use, but also possible to get average or poor quality if lower encoding quality settings are used. It's not just a question of bit rate.

I think the tingle factor which some recordings have is likely to be heavily reduced if the bit rate goes down to 192kbps or lower, and obvious artefacts may become apparent.

The emusic downloads I've had recently do sound acceptable, though if I downloaded something I really liked I'd still try to get the CDs or another physical format version.

I did notice that the emusic downloads are in Joint Stereo, which is arguably less good.

[mathias broucek]

I have only recently checked some of these. Some are around 227kbps, others even up to 320 kbps. I'd have to do a larger sampling to get the full range - pity I can't just do it automatically!

Bit rates only tell part of the story, though. If a recording isn't much good anyway, then encoding it in mp3 is probably going to make it sound worse, though how much worse may be a matter for debate. It is even possible, though unlikely, that the mp3 encoding could mask some faults.

OTOH a really good recording could be spoiled by poor mp3 encoding. I do believe that most people would have difficulty detecting the difference between a 256 kbps mp3 which has been well encoded, and the original. Some people with very acute hearing, or very good equipment may find it easier to hear problems. Where things can also go wrong is in the quality settings for the encoder. It is possible to get good or acceptable encodings at a given bit rate if the highest quality settings are use, but also possible to get average or poor quality if lower encoding quality settings are used. It's not just a question of bit rate.

I think the tingle factor which some recordings have is likely to be heavily reduced if the bit rate goes down to 192kbps or lower, and obvious artefacts may become apparent.

The emusic downloads I've had recently do sound acceptable, though if I downloaded something I really liked I'd still try to get the CDs or another physical format version.

I did notice that the emusic downloads are in Joint Stereo, which is arguably less good.

Thanks Dave. I passed on the offer in the end. I use a Naim streamer at home and anything less than 320 sounds very poor indeed.....

[Dave2002]

Thanks Dave. I passed on the offer in the end. I use a Naim streamer at home and anything less than 320 sounds very poor indeed.....

That's quite interesting. There might be a difference between streaming sources and sources specifically set up for downloads.
I am finding more and more that I'm going back to CDs. The only possible advantage mp3s might have quality wise is that they are capable of more than 16 bit resolution, but there will be trade offs, so overall CDs are still likely to sound better - sometimes very much so. They can be useful for playing in cars - for example in my car's mp3 capable CD player.

I do quiite like emusic for exploring out of the way music - there's some unusual or unexpected stuff there. I generally wouldn't bother with it for standard repertoire.

[mathias broucek]

That's quite interesting. There might be a difference between streaming sources and sources specifically set up for downloads.
I am finding more and more that I'm going back to CDs. The only possible advantage mp3s might have quality wise is that they are capable of more than 16 bit resolution, but there will be trade offs, so overall CDs are still likely to sound better - sometimes very much so. They can be useful for playing in cars - for example in my car's mp3 capable CD player.

I do quite like emusic for exploring out of the way music - there's some unusual or unexpected stuff there. I generally wouldn't bother with it for standard repertoire.

Quite so. I used to use it for unusual stuff or for historical material in acceptable rather than fantastic sound (e.g. BBC Legends)

I mainly use my streamer to stream from a hard disc containing ripped or downloaded material. The sound quality is pretty stunning with CD quality or hi res material but it's quite intolerant of low bit rate files and even 320 files have a certain dullness next to lossless equivalents.

On my system, CDs sound nearly as good as lossless (the streamer has a better DAC than my CD player which lacks a digital-out connection) but using the streamer is far more convenient in terms of finding stuff!

[muzzer]

OT but what's your streamer? I have an MF Clic and it takes a while to scroll thru the index.

[mikealdren]

Indexing is the key issue. I've put all my CDs onto computer using software from Musichi and I can now search by composer, composition, performers etc. It took ages to load the data but it's very powerful and the composition titles are consistent so I really can find things. It's great for comparing recordings.

I've also found (like MB?) that the sound through a high quality DAC is better than from my good quality CD player.

Streaming I found painful, both because of quality and indexing.

[mathias broucek]

OT but what's your streamer? I have an MF Clic and it takes a while to scroll thru the index.

I've a Naim Superuniti and a Uniqute. I don't use Spotify or Tidal - I just pull stuff from a NAS drive connected via Ethernet and Powerline adaptors.

The sound is stunning. Downsides are the time spent editing meta-data and the higher faff / lower reliability than CD. Scrolling is fast but there's a one second delay before you can hit the back key (e.g. from "Elgar, Edward" to "E" to "Composers". The Naim streamers are expensive but the Superuniti also includes a stunning amp and top class DAC.

[Dave2002]

Is there a way of excluding downloads from searches on Amazon? Ir's a real pain looking for some CDs to find oneself presented with loads of MP3 tracks, possibly from some of the CDs one is trying to find.