Bargains

[Dave2002]

His Philharmonia recordings, many of which are in mono, still seem to be critically preferred to this day.

The DG 4th was disparagingly described by one critic (I think) as 'a wild and chilly Scandinavian landscape as seen from the windows of a warm limousine' (sic). Despite that, I'd still rate HvK's 60s Sibelius recordings as his best.

OK - but I think you have to make up your own mind, rather than take the words of some critics, and their "received wisdom". If you know the recordings then you'll already have views. I can dip into them from the large EMI box. I probably don't need to buy another Karajan box to duplicate what I have already. You may spur me on to revisit some of the earlier recordings though - thanks.

There are some very good more modern Sibelius sets, and also a number of other older recordings by other conductors which are also worth hearing/collecting. Bernstein (NYPO) is very good in some e.g Sibelius 7th, and there's a good Barbirolli set.

[Radio64]

Ok thanks for all your suggestions. Food for thought.

[Dave2002]

Ok thanks for all your suggestions. Food for thought.

Are you expanding an existing Sibelius collection, or trying to get one started? Makes a difference, I think. Similarly for Bruckner - I noted that some of Karajan's Bruckner is very good. so might work on those new boxes, though again he's not the only conductor to listen to. Same for Mahler.

[Radio64]

Are you expanding an existing Sibelius collection, or trying to get one started? Makes a difference, I think. Similarly for Bruckner - I noted that some of Karajan's Bruckner is very good. so might work on those new boxes, though again he's not the only conductor to listen to. Same for Mahler.

Getting started. Plus amazon.it are giving 30%.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Maybe, but aren't some of the recordings/performances the same as the large (80+) Karajan sets from EMI?

I don't know - I was responding to Radio64's specific question. You're right; if it's the case that they're already in the large box (and at 80+ discs, they probably are) and R64 already has this set, then it is right to caution against buying duplicates.

My view is that possibly there are other versions of much of the material which Karajan did better in other recordings, and also that there are other versions by other conductors/orchestras which have in some (many?) cases superseded them.

I would agree with the first part of this comment, and admit the possibility of the second - but I stand by my comment that the '70s EMI recordings contain "some astonishing Music-making" (do you disagree?) and that was in response to R64's request for "recommend/not recommend". (If he'd asked "are these the best versions ever", I'd be a little more cautionary - and reply "not necessarily".)

So, in the case of the Sibelius box, I wouldn't necessarily suggest it as a first choice for anyone wanting a set of Sibelius symphonies

No - particularly as there isn't a Third Symphony included. Again, though, R64 didn't ask this. If he had, I would have said that there is no such beast, and honours are shared between about eight sets; but this partial set is excellent and contains some outstanding Music-making.

I'm guessing that the version of the 4th is not the one which many reckoned at the time was the best ever - though since Warner have taken over several of the major catalogues - it may be. I think the icy cold one was on DG, and that may have been the one which many others liked above most other versions.

You "guess" correct - except for the "best ever" comment: there are always fine Musicians who disagree with what other fine Musicians say, and this might confuse the specific question R64 was asking. Are these two boxes recommendable? Unequivocally, YES!

[teamsaint]

No better Boheme, Tosca, Butterfly, "Triptych" or Turandot, and an enticing Fanciulla. 1950s recordings (but all Stereo): REGIS has a mixed reputation for the quality of their reissues - but at £8.50 they'd have to be really naff re-edits not to be irresistable.


(IIRC Dave2002 was thinking about getting this a couple of years ago, when the 13 discs cost all of a pound each!)

THis arrived at TS towers this morning.Quality seems fine from what I have heard so far, so thanks again Ferney.

( There is even some bonus material at the end of some of the operas, EG, Bjorling singing some other Puccini arias at the end of La Boheme. Hours of fun .)

[Stanfordian]

[QUOTE=Conchis;509665]I don't have either of those sets so can't comment on these iterations, but I have all of the recordings in the Sibelius box. i can vouch for their excellence, although Karajan's EMI recordings of this period are criticised for their eccentric sound balances. From what I've heard, the most recent remastering (which will be included here) have gone some way to address those issues.

thanks.


Hiya Conchis,

In case you dont know already, Sir Simon Rattle and the Berliner Philharmoniker are about to release a new live set of Sibelius symphonies on its own label. These won't be low cost 'bargains' but in my view everything from this orchestra is worthy of attention. Looking for a bargain set of the symphonies I would choose the Boston Philharmonic under Sir Colin Davis recently re-issued on Decca.

https://www.berliner-philharmoniker-recordings.com/rattle-sibelius-symphonies.html

[Conchis]

[QUOTE=Stanfordian;509757]

I don't have either of those sets so can't comment on these iterations, but I have all of the recordings in the Sibelius box. i can vouch for their excellence, although Karajan's EMI recordings of this period are criticised for their eccentric sound balances. From what I've heard, the most recent remastering (which will be included here) have gone some way to address those issues.

thanks.


Hiya Conchis,

In case you dont know already, Sir Simon Rattle and the Berliner Philharmoniker are about to release a new live set of Sibelius symphonies on its own label. These won't be low cost 'bargains' but in my view everything from this orchestra is worthy of attention. Looking for a bargain set of the symphonies I would choose the Boston Philharmonic under Sir Colin Davis recently re-issued on Decca.

https://www.berliner-philharmoniker-...ymphonies.html

The complete sets that I have are:

Maazel/VPO

Ashkenazy/Philharmonia

Barbirolli/Halle

Of the three, I'd give the palm to the Barbirolli. The fact that the Halle are not a 'first tier' orchestra matters not a jot: the interpretations are superb and the recording quality is close to perfect.

[Dave2002]

I agree with the recommendation for Barbirolli, though in fact most of the ones mentioned here are good - Maazel, Ashkenazy, Davis/BPO. I also have Rattle in the earlier versions with the CBSO and also Philharmonia, and personally would put them a touch below the best - and I"m not sure that the Berlin PO versions are going to do better.

If downloads are possible - then Amazon has Vänskä's Sibelius in mp3 for £6.99 and iTunes has the collection (symphonies, plus violin concerto plus a few others) for £7.99 in aac format. Sakari Oramo's symphonies are also available as a download for £11.99 from iTunes.

Of very modern/recent performances/recordings, Storgårds. BBC PO recordings are good but probably not too cheap.

I liked some of the Iceland orchestra's performance (by different conductors) on Naxos, but since prices have collapsed generally, these are no longer the cheapest - but they are worth hearing.

[Dave2002]

Not physical CDs but QOBUZ has the Jansons RCO 'live' 13 disc set (the DVD of Mahler 4 is omitted) as lossless 44.1/16 downloads, replete with digital booklet, for €19.99. The CDs + DVD cost around five times that on amazon.co.uk, and that's a low price in itself.

Can now confirm that these download OK - but took me about 30-40 minutes - that's supposedly over a fast BT link.

Doesn't seem to be any documentation with the downloads - other than a JPG of the "cover". Probably can't complain too much at the price though. The Amazon price for the CDs+DVD is much higher - currently over £70 (marketplace) - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mariss-Janso.../dp/B00VXZEXFO

Just finished listening to Stravinsky Capriccio - and there's "live" clapping!

[Bryn]

Can now confirm that these download OK - but took me about 30-40 minutes - that's supposedly over a fast BT link.

Doesn't seem to be any documentation with the downloads - other than a JPG of the "cover".

There should be a pdf of the whole booklet. If not, PM me ... . My download (I accidentally opted for uncompressed WAVs, took considerably less time. I got a free upgrade from 20Mb to 50Mb for downloads from Virgin Media in January. It has now been further upgraded (again no increase in the charge of £26.65 a month with no landline phone, so no line rental) to 68Mb (just measured it), though the upload rate is still a meager 3Mb.

[Cockney Sparrow]

How recommendable are these recordings, I have wondered - as I haven't spotted any comment on the merits of the performances. So I am undecided about this set, but can see its a bargain. I'm surprised that what Qobuz describe as a digital booklet is not provided with the download. But - it can be found on at least one other UK download site. PM me if you draw a blank on getting Qobuz to provide it, or otherwise finding the booklet pdf.

Booklet can also be found on Naxos Music Library** - go into the Label list on the top (grey bar over the page width) list of options, then click on "Labels" RCO Live, and the set is on page 3, where there is a PDF of the booklet available.

[**if you don't want to pay an annual subscription to NML, then your local library may provide access through their electronic resources. (Or, Barbican Library, City of London can be joined with no residential requirements].

[Bryn]

How recommendable are these recordings, I have wondered - as I haven't spotted any comment on the merits of the performances. So I am undecided about this set, but can see its a bargain.

There is a very comprehensive, if somewhat negative, review among the customer offerings at amazon.co.uk. Tintagel is the name to look for.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mariss-Jansons-Radio-Recordings-1990-2014/dp/B00VXZEXFO/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1443091447&sr=1-3&keywords=jansons+rco+live

[Dave2002]

How recommendable are these recordings, I have wondered - as I haven't spotted any comment on the merits of the performances. So I am undecided about this set, but can see its a bargain. I'm surprised that what Qobuz describe as a digital booklet is not provided with the download. But - it can be found on at least one other UK download site. PM me if you draw a blank on getting Qobuz to provide it, or otherwise finding the booklet pdf.

Booklet can also be found on Naxos Music Library** - go into the Label list on the top (grey bar over the page width) list of options, then click on "Labels" RCO Live, and the set is on page 3, where there is a PDF of the booklet available.

[**if you don't want to pay an annual subscription to NML, then your local library may provide access through their electronic resources. (Or, Barbican Library, City of London can be joined with no residential requirements].

Thanks for tips - also to Bryn.

This set is also on Spotify if anyone wants to sample there first - https://open.spotify.com/album/3dkhta6jlG2gWOeFdhvvEV
I thought it was worth testing Qobuz out - this was my first time, and perhaps the quality of the downloads is somewhat better than the Spotify streams.
I opted for a Zip download using ALAC format and presumably I should be able to create other versions if I decide I need to.

There are quite a lof of files in the zip archive, but I didn't spot a PDF booklet - only the JPG image for the front. Just in case I missed it, I also tried looking for recently installed PDFs - but none popped up. The zip appeared to be created dynamically before the download from the selected ALAC files - which were perhaps also dynamically generated.

So far seems enjoyablle enough. I should make efforts to back these up ASAP - I'm not sure what Qobuz do, if anything, about any downloads which fail, or if any tracks get lost. I am assuming it's a one time purchase - i.e it's now my responsibility to keep things safe - though some other services in the past did offer repeat downloads. I might even burn CDs! I did copy the files to a memory stick - so at least slightly safer now - but the ZIP file was too big to go on a FAT formatted device so I unpacked it and split into two folders.

[Dave2002]

Re the review by "Tintagel" - he/she seems to view this as a mixed bag - curate's egg collection. Some of the apparent duds are not of particular interest to me anyway, apart from the concern that I might not want to waste time listening to them if they really are as problematic as suggested. I do have several versions of most of the common pieces. I have been more interested in some of the rarities - such as the Martinu violin concerto - which is good from what I've heard so far. The reviewer also liked some performances a lot - e.g Bruckner 3 - and from what I've read, the set at this price is worth having - with the really good/outstanding performances offset by (allegedly) some less enticing ones. Am currently listening to the Rachmaninov 2nd symphony - though haven't come to the sections with the cuts mentioned yet. No real problems in the first movement anyway.

D.S. Crowe's review is more positive anyway - and also worth reading.