Bargains

[HighlandDougie]

I bought the box last month from FNAC - it cost less than 10 euros, although I suspect that the price will now have increased. I enthused about the Leisdorf Agon in 'What have you been listening to?'. Alas, I can also confirm that there are no notes whatsoever so Wikipedia has come in handy for some of the more obscure works. For those of a certain age (like myself), the list of composers (Haubenstock-Ramati et al) is a bit of a roll-call of the Third Programme's 'Music in Our Time'.

[Bryn]

I bought the box last month from FNAC - it cost less than 10 euros, although I suspect that the price will now have increased. I enthused about the Leisdorf Agon in 'What have you been listening to?'. Alas, I can also confirm that there are no notes whatsoever so Wikipedia has come in handy for some of the more obscure works. For those of a certain age (like myself), the list of composers (Haubenstock-Ramati et al) is a bit of a roll-call of the Third Programme's 'Music in Our Time'.

The FNAC price appears to have more than doubled since you bought your copy.

[EdgeleyRob]

Does anyone have an opinion on the merits,or otherwise,of this set ?

Availabe on Amazon for under £12 inc pp.

I was thinking it might complement my JEG DG set.

[Stanfordian]

Does anyone have an opinion on the merits,or otherwise,of this set ?

Availabe on Amazon for under £12 inc pp.

I was thinking it might complement my JEG DG set.

Hiya EdgeleyRob,

In JS Bach I find Rilling too hit and miss. In JS Bach I rely on 3 conductors that continue to provide satisying performances. For consistently excellent characterful period performances I relish Philippe Herreweghe and his Collegium Vocale Gent. For dependable traditional Bach performances I admire Karl Richter and his Munich Bach Choir everytime. For pristine period performances I also listen to Masaaki Suzuki and his Bach Collegium Japan.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I know only some of Rilling's Bach Cantata recordings - not really to my taste: HIPP-influenced, but using modern instruments. Unlike StanF, however, I find them much more enjoyable than Richter's recordings (even with Janowitz in the Christmas Oratorio!) - and at under £12 for some magnificent Music (and a "balance" to JEGgers) I don't think you'll be at all disappointed or feel short-changed!

[Dave2002]

fhg

I agree that this seems like a reasonable set at a good price. Seems that Rilling has done some of these pieces several times for different recording companies. There is an SACD version (which record label?) of the B minor mass - though the playing doesn't seem as good as on some rival versions. I may also have to agree with StanF that Rilling can be a bit hit and miss - though that may be due to all sorts of factors. I have heard some good things from him.

I was somewhat surprised at a recent BAL in which his recording of Haydn's Nelson Mass came out as overall "top", though the reviewer - Jeremy Summerly - did make the comments that for any one section there could be others which could offer a different - arguably better - experience, but that the overall effect was best conveyed by Rilling's performance.

There could well be good things on the Bach collection box, and if one has time to listen to all the CDs this does indeed seem a worthwhile buy.

Incidentally typing "Mass in B minor" seems to get the best search results in both Spotify and also in Napster, though I haven't found the particular B minor mass version in the box set. I was surprised to find versions by Celibidache and also by Alan Gilbert available online. The sample of Gilbert's version which I tried started off well, but then some of the playing went slightly awry. Not necessarily a deal breaker, but in the style of BALs, when there's a lot to choose from some go by the wayside. From what I've heard though, Gilbert's version has some good points - but there are some slight "issues". Perfection is very hard to obtain, even with so many versions available.

I thought maybe there might be a Bernstein recording of that, but no - but there is the St Matthew Passion - https://open.spotify.com/track/0LFfyTwST5O8uwZcMSZskH - with the words sung in English!

While I agree in general with a preference for HIPP recordings, there is no getting away from the fact that some of the versions with larger forces, on modern instruments, and in interpretations by some celebrated conductors and orchestras, do sometimes provide a more enjoyable experience than some of the more routine "authentic" versions. It may be a matter of tempo, though not only that, but also a feeling of pulse and movement. Klemperer to my surprise in the B minor mass Sanctus was not significantly slower than some others.

There are so many versions even of just this one work, that it is almost impossible to choose a "best" one. Perhaps it's just easiest to buy the Rilling box (or indeed many of the others) and enjoy the music. It is after all not as expensive as a modest meal out.

[mathias broucek]

I've got the Christmas Oratorio from that box

It's not the most imaginative or subtle performance, but it's musical with good soloists and some nice brass playing (all from members of the same family)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Dave

Yes - I find that whilst I prefer HIPP performances, I still like older "big band" recordings - RVW's Matthew Passion, Karajan's B minor Mass, Boult's "Brandenbergs" among them. (Bernstein's "St Matthew" is not only in English, but [IIRC] heavily cut. There's also a most enjoyable Messiah with [again, IIRC] the Mormon Tabernacle Choir!)

But it's the small-scale modern instrument chamber orchestra approach that I regret does little for me these days in Baroque repertoire. Just my extremist self, I suppose

[Dave2002]

But it's the small-scale modern instrument chamber orchestra approach that I regret does little for me these days in Baroque repertoire. Just my extremist self, I suppose

I have heard some very good modern instrument chamber orchestras - and they certainly have worked for Beethoven, and I don't really see why they shouldn't work for Bach too. Indeed I may have actually heard one of them in the B minor mass - though I can't remember the details, and very probably also in the Christmas Oratorio.

I think some large symphony orchestras are effectively reduced to chamber orchestra size also - as in the Leipzig Gewandhaus performances of Bach's music in Thomaskirche - nothing much wrong with that, even though notionally the "same" orchestra might play Mahler the following month. I suppose it might depend on how adaptable the players are to different performing styles. A "period" orchestra will presumably be more attuned to some baroque music.

Good chamber orchestras I have heard include:

The Australian Chamber Orchestra - very good

and

The Nordic Chamber Orchestra - formerlly I think Sundsvall's Chamber Orchestra, which was certainly good when it was directed by Christopher Warren-Green.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes - I think we're in a period of necessary (and welcome) change in the very nature of "the orchestra" as more and more players who have been trained and experienced in both modern and "period" instrument performance join the "established", international Symphony orchestras. It's no longer a case (if it ever was) of "either/or" but of "both". I think that it will become ever more commonplace for the same orchestra to play (say) Haydn on period instruments and Bartok on modern ones in the same concert - just as the Australian Chamber Orchestra you mention already so perform Bach and Stravinsky.

It was just my own peculiar personal preference for the different "extremes" I mentioned earlier.

[EdgeleyRob]

Thanks folks for the info and advice,appreciated.
I've ordered the Rilling box.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

- it'll be interesting to hear your reactions when you've listened to the discs, Edgy.

[Bryn]

Not my favourite recording of the work, but the 71'+ of Feldman's For Bunita Marcus mp3 here is a bargain not to be missed.

[ChrisBennell]

Soler Sonatas for harpsichord Vol 3 - Naxos - Gilbert Rowland - Oxfam £2.99

Already had volume 5.

Have had a soft-spot for Soler since the 80s when R3 had a programme comparing and contrasting Soler and Scarlatti. Still got that and transferred it to CD some time ago. Those were the days!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Not my favourite recording of the work, but the 71'+ of Feldman's For Bunita Marcus mp3 here is a bargain not to be missed.

The only recording of it I have (alas) - but it is very, very good. And at 69p (yes, 69p) it would be simply rude not to download it!