Bargains

[Dave2002]

HMV.com remains the only etailer in my experience who has ever refused to honour the contract for a mistakenly priced item. As they are going through troubles at the moment, I didn't quibble with this.

I think that Amazon could quite reasonably back off this one, as there is no contract as yet. They could take it as an invitation to treat. There is no contract as there is no consideration. If they do otherwise they are being generous - very!

[LeMartinPecheur]

I think that Amazon could quite reasonably back off this one, as there is no contract as yet. They could take it as an invitation to treat. There is no contract as there is no consideration. If they do otherwise they are being generous - very!

Sorry, Dave2002, but a promise to pay the advertised purchase price is perfectly adequate consideration to form a valid contract. In many sale of goods contracts the obligation to pay only arises on delivery but the contract is still fully enforceable (in thory anyway: see next para). OK, many online sellers introduce terms and conditions so a price you see may not prevail, particularly if the seller has made a gross error, but contract textbooks would need a fundamental rewrite if actual payment were always obligatory for an enforceable contract.

The major reason why the courts aren't full of actions brought by consumers for "loss of a bargain" is that you can't force the seller to deliver on contracts for common goods: all you're in theory entitled to claim from him for non-delivery is the difference between his price and the price you actually paid after a reasonable hunt round for the next-best price. And nobody bothers with a county court small claim for anything less than higher 3-figure sums I would think.

[Dave2002]

Sorry, Dave2002, but a promise to pay the advertised purchase price is perfectly adequate consideration to form a valid contract. In many sale of goods contracts the obligation to pay only arises on delivery but the contract is still fully enforceable (in thory anyway: see next para). OK, many online sellers introduce terms and conditions so a price you see may not prevail, particularly if the seller has made a gross error, but contract textbooks would need a fundamental rewrite if actual payment were always obligatory for an enforceable contract.

The major reason why the courts aren't full of actions brought by consumers for "loss of a bargain" is that you can't force the seller to deliver on contracts for common goods: all you're in theory entitled to claim from him for non-delivery is the difference between his price and the price you actually paid after a reasonable hunt round for the next-best price. And nobody bothers with a county court small claim for anything less than higher 3-figure sums I would think.

I beg to differ. Without a consideration there is no contract. There actually has to be something - usually money - transferred. It could be as little as one penny. What we have here is a promise to enter into a contract, not a contract. Amazon make it very clear that they do not charge until they are ready to deliver the goods. Once they take payment, then they have entered into a contract, and failure to deliver the correct goods in good condition after that would be a breach of contract on their part.

You are of course right that practical considerations come in, whether there is a contract or not. Arguing about broken contracts is hardly ever worth while unless, as you say the numbers are large enough - and that would apply to both sides of such a putative contract. One has then to take into account lawyers' fees, court fees etc. and also the possibility that judgement may go against one.

[antongould]

I feel Carhill v Carbolic Smokeball Company coming on!

[bluestateprommer]

(1) The most recent CD surprise in the local shop was in the bargain section, for $1.99, a Supraphon CD of choral works by Zelenka, which I picked up on a whim. It shows up on Amazon.co.uk as a used copy for £87.77 (!).
(2) A more expensive "bargain" was the naive 2 CD set of Roger Reynolds works performed by the Arditti Quartet, for $16.00, which doesn't sound like a bargain until you check Amazon.com and see that it's priced at $36.90 now for a used copy. Since I had some store credit from other trade-ins, I figured what the heck.

[Dave2002]

I feel Carhill v Carbolic Smokeball Company coming on!

Fascinatng - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlill..._Ball_Company- though note that in that case a consideration was paid. I've not read the whole article yet though. I thought that was going to be a joke, but it was apparently a real case.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I beg to differ. Without a consideration there is no contract. There actually has to be something - usually money - transferred. It could be as little as one penny. What we have here is a promise to enter into a contract, not a contract. Amazon make it very clear that they do not charge until they are ready to deliver the goods. Once they take payment, then they have entered into a contract, and failure to deliver the correct goods in good condition after that would be a breach of contract on their part.

You are of course right that practical considerations come in, whether there is a contract or not. Arguing about broken contracts is hardly ever worth while unless, as you say the numbers are large enough - and that would apply to both sides of such a putative contract. One has then to take into account lawyers' fees, court fees etc. and also the possibility that judgement may go against one.

In a nutshell, a promise to pay is perfectly good consideration. This is elementary contract law: read a textbook.

[vinteuil]

i see from amazon that the Michel Chapuis 14 CD Bach organ works, issued valois 1966-70, reissued naive 1999, is being re-reissued next month - £31.68 on amazon.uk; 26.96 euros on amazon.fr.

[Don Petter]

I think that Amazon could quite reasonably back off this one, as there is no contract as yet. They could take it as an invitation to treat. There is no contract as there is no consideration. If they do otherwise they are being generous - very!

You're right. There's your answer - the price has just zonked up to £250 odd in my basket, so I've declined the sale!

[Curalach]

You're right. There's your answer - the price has just zonked up to £250 odd in my basket, so I've declined the sale!

It is still at £29.34 in my order details. If it shoots up I will cancel.

[crb11]

You're right. There's your answer - the price has just zonked up to £250 odd in my basket, so I've declined the sale!

If it's still in your basket, it sounds like you didn't "take" it to the checkout and make the order, unlike vinteuil and me who did, and have it listed under forthcoming orders at the low price. For shops, retailers are obliged to honour the price advertised on shelves at the checkout. For on-line retailers, I think this applies if the item is checked out within a certain time period, but beyond that they are allowed to change prices - certainly had a couple of things I left in my Amazon basket for a couple of days which changed prices.

[vinteuil]

You're right. There's your answer - the price has just zonked up to £250 odd in my basket, so I've declined the sale!

... I think if it's in your basket it will show the revised current (£250) price: the question remains for those who have ordered it, where it is still showing at the original £29 price...

EDIT - crb11 - we posted at the same time! - morphic resonance

[Don Petter]

You're all three right, of course! (And I've done quite enough Amazon purchasing to know the mechanism, so no excuse.)

For some reason I was thinking of putting it in the basket, and then confirming when available, but that is not enough to fix the price, as you so rightly say. Anyway, I'm not sure I needed the item, as I have most of the recordings from earlier issues, so it was really just the thrill of the chase leading me on.

I did get the Steinberg set by the 'right' route, and that is one where I only have a handful of the recordings already, so probably an honorable outcome all round, though I do sincerely hope you all have a happy result with the current quarry.

[makropulos]

... I think if it's in your basket it will show the revised current (£250) price: the question remains for those who have ordered it, where it is still showing at the original £29 price...

EDIT - crb11 - we posted at the same time! - morphic resonance

Yes - mine's still showing as the £29 price on my order page:
Order Placed:
19 Sep 2011
View Order Details | Printable Order Summary [...] Order Total: £29.34

So we'll just have to see what happens when the thing is released.

[gurnemanz]

Nice free download here:

http://the-sixteen.org.uk/page/3230