HVK Tchaikovsky

[slarty]

Actually the first three sets are listed.

http://www.mdt.co.uk/karajan-the-vienna-philharmonic-post-war-recordings-1946-1949-warner-classics.html

http://www.mdt.co.uk/beethoven-symphonies-and-overtures-1951-1955-von-karajan-warner-classics-6cds.html

They are - The Vienna Recordings 1946 - 1949 and The Beethoven Symphonies with the Philharmonia (which includes as a bonus a previously unissued Stereo version of the 1955 ninth).
I am looking forward very much to these reissues - there were so many problems with EMI's 88 disc box - it's flimsyness - mistakes in the booklet - 4 missing bars from the Bruckner 7 and so on. Also with 88 discs and the smallest thinnest booklet imaginable it is the devil of a job to find anything. There is no index - just discs 1 to 88 and there track listings.
Therefore if a desired CD is required one must trawl through the mini booklet to find it every time.
I shall take the greatest of pleasure junking this box once I have acquired the Warner boxes.

[Roehre]

..... There is no index - just discs 1 to 88 and there track listings.
Therefore if a desired CD is required one must trawl through the mini booklet to find it every time.....

I take it you don't have your collection in a database then.
Takes some time to do it, but with hardly any other than the war horse repertoire -which most likely is represented in the database already and only needs to be copied and amended with the box and CD-number- it's something of half an hour's work. That pays of, in my experience.

[slarty]

Which database Roehre? I'm not that great with computers

[PJPJ]

Is this really yet another remastering, or simply a reissue/repackaging?

I understand these, like the recent Kempe, are the remasterings used for the EMI Japan SACD releases.

[Roehre]

Which database Roehre? I'm not that great with computers

I made my own (in Access), but there is software readily available, some even with the possibillity to load the contents of CDs and other media straight into it.
If you are interested, I'd suggest to put the question at the Techie board.

[Keraulophone]

Compare HvK/BPO in 'Winter Daydreams' with Evgeny Svetlanov and his USSR State SO in what seems to be a soviet TV studio recording (incorrectly titled No.4 on YT) to see how much Russian 'spirit' is missing from the Berliners' first-time traversal... try a couple of minutes of the finale, for example. Russian-strength vodka not to be found in K's cocktail cabinet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7tqPKgGpqQ&list=RDiVCvx9J0Zwk

[visualnickmos]

.....Russian 'spirit' is missing from the Berliners' first-time traversal... try a couple of minutes of the finale, for example. Russian-strength vodka not to be found in K's cocktail cabinet?

What a wonderful way of putting it - and completely apt...

[Barbirollians]

Compare HvK/BPO in 'Winter Daydreams' with Evgeny Svetlanov and his USSR State SO in what seems to be a soviet TV studio recording (incorrectly titled No.4 on YT) to see how much Russian 'spirit' is missing from the Berliners' first-time traversal... try a couple of minutes of the finale, for example. Russian-strength vodka not to be found in K's cocktail cabinet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7tqP...=RDiVCvx9J0Zwk

There is a place for both IMO . Svetlanov's firecracker performances sometimes seem to me , for all their excitement , to lose the structure of these works that these BPO recordings so marvellously display. The criticisms of the Polish for example seem to me much less pertinent after hearing the BPO/Karajan accounts. Tchaikovsky was writing symphonies here not orchestral showpieces- there is I believe a clear dividing line between his symphonies and his more programmatic works .

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Some Russian performances of the 5th symphony 2nd movement are ruined for me, by horn playing that resembles the singing of Dame Gwyneth Jones.

[Hornspieler]

On listening to Karajan and the BPO in the Polish symphony this afternoon I am struck by how good a Tchaikovsky conductor he was . Glorious playing by the BPO of course but no longeuers in this symphony today and excitement of which a Russian orchestra would be proud .

Coupled with a marche Slave to make the hairs on the back of your neck stand on end and a party of a Capriccio Italien.

I have that HvK set from the 1950s and have to agree about its qualities. However, I have to say that the 1964 "Pathetique" (Coupled with Romeo and Juliet) is even better - recording-wise at least.

If you favour the the "Iron Curtain" thick and wobbly horn sound of past years, you would probably enjoy my CDs on the Rondo Label (RON CD 228) with Nos. 1 & 2 played by the Russian State Symphony Orchestra/Vladimir Nikolayev and No 3 Played by the Prague Radio Symphony Orchestra/Pavel Radkowa.

Needless to say, I also have Silvestri's Nos 2 and 3, the eccentric Nº 4, Nº 5 and "Manfred" played by the Bournemouth Symphony orchestra.

Yes. Contrary to popular belief, HvK was a great interpreter of Tchaikowsky's music.

Hs

[Dave2002]

I understand these, like the recent Kempe, are the remasterings used for the EMI Japan SACD releases.

OK - but will the faults pointed out by slarty (msg 16) be corrected? Junking the large EMI box works for those able to afford it, but would perhaps not be worth while unless the remastering offered significant quality benefits, and also corrected the faults mentioned.

Lastly, are the new versions to be available in SACD formats, or are they only CDs in the UK? Might be better to wait for high quality downloads, perhaps.

[Barbirollians]

Indeed, comparing the finales of the Karajan and Svetlanov Winter Daydreams made my point for me . Svetlanov all very exciting but HVK very illuminating and atmospheric .

[Keraulophone]

There is a place for both IMO.

Agreed.

...horn playing that resembles the singing of Dame Gwyneth Jones.

Rather harsh - both on the USSR SO horn players of 1985 and on Dame Gwyneth's singing eg. C.Kleiber/Munich/Rosenkavalier.

I have that HvK set from the 1950s and have to agree about its qualities.

HvK's half-set of symphonies 1-3 were recorded over a decade later in the late 1970s. Nos. 4-6 were recorded with the BPO during the mid-1960s.

The c.1985 'live studio' Svetlanov performances (on YouTube) need to be judged on their own merits, and not assumed to be identical to those he recorded on LP for Melodiya. IMO this conductor got better and better towards the end of his career, including on his rare visits to London when he conducted some superb concerts with the LSO, eg Scheherazade at the RFH.

[Karafan]

Yes, Karajan never played 1-3 in the concert hall (likewise with the early Bruckner symphonies - and even No6 in the case of the latter).

The Polish symphony sounds particularly wonderful in the short-lived DG foray into the SACD format - translucent and tremendously well caught. I am forced to agree that the Russians might give you a quick sugar-fix, but the long-seeing Karajan and the fingerspitzengefühl he exercises over his Berliners takes some beating in my book! :-)

K.

[BBMmk2]

I always thought the first n3 symphonies were rather hard to bring off. I have Andrew Liton and Mariss Jansons. IMO they do a fine job with the first three?