Berg: Three Orchestral Pieces op. 6

[Petrushka]

Even more than Holst in Mars from the Planets, Berg's Three Orchestral Pieces op. 6 is a nightmare premonition of the senseless mechanistic slaughter of the First World War and the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Strongly influenced to the point of using hammer blows by Mahler's 6th Symphony I find it a disturbing, even frightening, listen. It is, nevertheless, a great favourite of mine.

The very first version I had on LP was Boulez and the BBC SO recorded in 1968 and it still sounds fine on CD. Boulez's ear for detail is very apparent and the cumulative tension is expertly built and the final hammer blow comes with a massive shock. My only surprise is that he never revisited the score in the studio.

Other versions on my shelves come from Karajan, Abbado (x2), and Sinopoli.

As we approach the centenary of its composition as well as that of the First World War does anyone have any thoughts to share on this work and recordings?

[richardfinegold]

Even more than Holst in Mars from the Planets, Berg's Three Orchestral Pieces op. 6 is a nightmare premonition of the senseless mechanistic slaughter of the First World War and the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Strongly influenced to the point of using hammer blows by Mahler's 6th Symphony I find it a disturbing, even frightening, listen. It is, nevertheless, a great favourite of mine.

The very first version I had on LP was Boulez and the BBC SO recorded in 1968 and it still sounds fine on CD. Boulez's ear for detail is very apparent and the cumulative tension is expertly built and the final hammer blow comes with a massive shock. My only surprise is that he never revisited the score in the studio.

Other versions on my shelves come from Karajan, Abbado (x2), and Sinopoli.

As we approach the centenary of its composition as well as that of the First World War does anyone have any thoughts to share on this work and recordings?

Have to confess that I don't know the piece. Your description makes me want to investigate!

Whoa--used copy of the Boulez CD goes for $200 on Amazon--think I'll check Abbado.

[Petrushka]

Have to confess that I don't know the piece. Your description makes me want to investigate!

Whoa--used copy of the Boulez CD goes for $200 on Amazon--think I'll check Abbado.

Abbado/VPO is the one to go for. I bought the Boulez second hand in London for less than £5.

[richardfinegold]

Abbado/VPO is the one to go for. I bought the Boulez second hand in London for less than £5.

I feel more like an idiot than the norm. i just listened on Spotify to the Abbado and realized that I used to have the Karajan collection of "Second Viennese School" works on lp. I never replaced that set after my lps were destroyed in a flood in the mid 1980s.
It is interesting revisiting these pieces after that kind of interval. I think vonK softened their many rough edges compared to what i am listening to now...

[Bryn]

The old Boulez recording of the 3 Pieces for Orchestra is included in Sony's Boulez Berg Edition boxed set of 5 CDs:



Less than £17 from the amazon.co.uk site, and less than $18 from amazon.com.

Full listing at http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/deta...g/hnum/5915313

[jayne lee wilson]

I feel more like an idiot than the norm. i just listened on Spotify to the Abbado and realized that I used to have the Karajan collection of "Second Viennese School" works on lp. I never replaced that set after my lps were destroyed in a flood in the mid 1980s.
It is interesting revisiting these pieces after that kind of interval. I think vonK softened their many rough edges compared to what i am listening to now...

Oh, what a tragic loss, rfg! That Karajan set of Schoenberg/Berg/Webern is one of his greatest achievements - a classic of the Gramophone, and the expressive and colouristic range and subtlety of the Berg Op.6 seem unsurpassable. But most of all, the CD transfer has a dynamic range and impact that can only be described as scary! Recorded in the Jesus-Christus Kirche, it has a more spacious and atmospheric sound than the fine Abbado/VPO (1995) reading, which sounds just a little contained by comparison (at least as heard on the 8-disc DG Collection set), and which I find a touch frustrating sonically. Karajan creates a more intense sound-image of collapsing civilisations, as the orchestra sweeps from a whisper to a roar and makes you fear for your ears and your speakers. It is a demanding recording, needing a fairly high level to reveal the marvellous lowlevel detail, but as the climaxes approach, watch out... anyone who cares for this music should have this set. In the mid-1970s I used to borrow the LPs from the library, kept on renewing the loan for months, and never once did anyone else request them. The abstract green/turquoise/black cover art is a classic of its kind too.

Let's not forget the stunningly virtuoso, every-detail-audible LSO/Dorati on Mercury. Not always the last word in musical nuances perhaps, but it's a riveting listen, and if you want brutal expressionistic impact in the March, look no further! And another classic cover - "I saw the figure 5 in gold" by Demuth. Worth having for that alone...
But it's too late even for me to add more tonight...

[Sir Velo]

Even more than Holst in Mars from the Planets, Berg's Three Orchestral Pieces op. 6 is a nightmare premonition of the senseless mechanistic slaughter of the First World War

I'd hardly say that the Berg was "even more" of a premonition of war than the Holst (if by which you mean a greater piece, I would equally disagree). If it seems so, it can only be that familiarity with the Holst has dulled the shock of the new. Hard to do, but listen to it with fresh ears and you will find it hard to imagine music of comparably shocking violence as Mars. Having said that, the Berg is a favourite of mine as well.

[Petrushka]

Oh, what a tragic loss, rfg! That Karajan set of Schoenberg/Berg/Webern is one of his greatest achievements - a classic of the Gramophone, and the expressive and colouristic range and subtlety of the Berg Op.6 seem unsurpassable. But most of all, the CD transfer has a dynamic range and impact that can only be described as scary! Recorded in the Jesus-Christus Kirche, it has a more spacious and atmospheric sound than the fine Abbado/VPO (1995) reading, which sounds just a little contained by comparison (at least as heard on the 8-disc DG Collection set), and which I find a touch frustrating sonically. Karajan creates a more intense sound-image of collapsing civilisations, as the orchestra sweeps from a whisper to a roar and makes you fear for your ears and your speakers. It is a demanding recording, needing a fairly high level to reveal the marvellous lowlevel detail, but as the climaxes approach, watch out... anyone who cares for this music should have this set. In the mid-1970s I used to borrow the LPs from the library, kept on renewing the loan for months, and never once did anyone else request them. The abstract green/turquoise/black cover art is a classic of its kind too.

Let's not forget the stunningly virtuoso, every-detail-audible LSO/Dorati on Mercury. Not always the last word in musical nuances perhaps, but it's a riveting listen, and if you want brutal expressionistic impact in the March, look no further! And another classic cover - "I saw the figure 5 in gold" by Demuth. Worth having for that alone...
But it's too late even for me to add more tonight...

Fantastic stuff, Jayne.

Perhaps it helped give Karajan's reading an extra edge in that he lived through the 'collapsing civilisations' not once but twice. Perhaps I've been playing it all these years at too low a volume setting because it's precisely that low level detail that I miss.

I also see that I have the Dorati on my shelves as well.

[Pianoman]

Another fan here - I have Abbado but more often than not prefer the Levine/ Berlin Phil. DG disc, one of Jimmy's finest achievements outside America. Great pity he didn't do more music of this type with them imo.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Pretty good overview of the rich and fecund thematic and harmonic workings of the work here:

http://www.tufts.edu/~mdevoto/DreiOrch-English.pdf

... even if the introductory remarks are rather naff, the rest of the essay demonstrates exactly what Berg learnt from his teacher in these respects, if not quite so perceptive on Berg's mastery of rhythmic connections - or the labyrinthine juggling of structural devices. (To be fair, any "essay" that attempted such a full-scale analysis would have to turn into an entire book!)

Bitter irony, nostalgic regret, unflinching realism; yes, Mahler #6 & #9 and Schönberg's Opp 5 & 16 give the work a bunk up - but it is a poor pupil who merely copies his teachers, and what Berg does that is entirely his own in these pieces would have gladdened the hearts, souls and minds of both Gustav and Arnie. No single performance can hope to present all facets of the work - Karajan (overwhelmingly intense) and Boulez (surgically incisive) together get pretty damn close - but all the others mentioned so far (Sinopoli, Dorati, Abbado) reveal features that even they can't fit into a single performance. It helps, too, to hear it in the concert hall - details which challenge the microphone become clear with a good acoustic and a sensitive conductor: and that final Thwack - an emotional and intellectual cosh!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Another fan here - I have Abbado but more often than not prefer the Levine/ Berlin Phil. DG disc, one of Jimmy's finest achievements outside America. Great pity he didn't do more music of this type with them imo.

Gosh, yes: I'd forgotten the Levine A more realistic choice for home listening than Herbie and/or Pierre, but without diluting the impact of the work (which was my problem with the Rattle/CBSO version - but this emotional detachment made that recording the one to live with when studying the work).

[Petrushka]

Pretty good overview of the rich and fecund thematic and harmonic workings of the work here:

http://www.tufts.edu/~mdevoto/DreiOrch-English.pdf

... even if the introductory remarks are rather naff, the rest of the essay demonstrates exactly what Berg learnt from his teacher in these respects, if not quite so perceptive on Berg's mastery of rhythmic connections - or the labyrinthine juggling of structural devices. (To be fair, any "essay" that attempted such a full-scale analysis would have to turn into an entire book!)

Bitter irony, nostalgic regret, unflinching realism; yes, Mahler #6 & #9 and Schönberg's Opp 5 & 16 give the work a bunk up - but it is a poor pupil who merely copies his teachers, and what Berg does that is entirely his own in these pieces would have gladdened the hearts, souls and minds of both Gustav and Arnie. No single performance can hope to present all facets of the work - Karajan (overwhelmingly intense) and Boulez (surgically incisive) together get pretty damn close - but all the others mentioned so far (Sinopoli, Dorati, Abbado) reveal features that even they can't fit into a single performance. It helps, too, to hear it in the concert hall - details which challenge the microphone become clear with a good acoustic and a sensitive conductor: and that final Thwack - an emotional and intellectual cosh!

Thanks for the link, Ferney. This is just what I want and have bookmarked it for future reading in more depth than I can give it at present.

By the way, I wasn't aware that Rattle had recorded the work. I've heard it only twice in the concert hall and both times under Rattle: with the CBSO and BPO.

How do Sir Colin Davis and Danielle Gatti fare against recordings so far mentioned?

[Bryn]

By the way, I wasn't aware that Rattle had recorded the work.

Nor I.

[Pianoman]

I used to have the Rattle but it didn't 'do it' for me compared to the others. Btw, the first reason I bought that Levine disc was having heard it at a friend's house, showing off his posh new equipment, he put the Funeral March from the Webern 6 Pieces and to this day I've not heard that huge crescendo done any better..

[LeMartinPecheur]

I used to have the Rattle but it didn't 'do it' for me compared to the others.

Ah, another sighting of the phantom Rattle!

(Amazon seems to think he's only done the Lulu suite on CD...)

PS Though there is a Rattle BPO live version on YouTube.