Pristine Audio Favourites

[Thropplenoggin]

Heard a few samples on the Pristine Audio site today and was very impressed, especially by the Budapest String Quartet in Brahms String Quintet No. 2 Op.111 from 1932.

I'm tempted by Walter's Mahler 9 (1938) and Weingartner's Beethoven 9 (1935). Has anyone heard the P.A. remasterings of these? The sound on the samples is quite astonishing considering the age of the recordings. Nothing like the EMI remasters.

Any others I should consider?

Also, what is 'ambient stereo'?

[Gordon]

Pristine is an impressive site and I have downloaded quite a few items over the last couple of years, some of them because they were the only source of some early material from Kingsway eg Coates/LSO from late 1920s. That Mahler is very good, better on the whole than the EMI CD. Don't know the Weingartner. I have just downloaded Toscanini's penultimate concert which was done in real early RCA stereo - I have the ATRA CD of the final one - and that has come up well considering. The sound is fine but still slightly shrill in places and I am not convinced with his way with the Tchaikovsly 6 or the playing either. He was a bit frail of course then and retired after the next concert. I don't think that 8-H was a good place to record!! Very dry but probably OK for the broadcast era.

Other recent d'ls are Ormandy & Philadelphia doing some Bach transcriptions, Klemperer's Brahms symphonies, and if you want a sonic splendour disc PASC 200 1812 LSO/Alwyn with the works - impressive for its time.

The other Toscanini you might look at is the RFH Philharmonia live Brahms set from 1952, better sound than the Hunt set. Another dry hall at that time. It also has some comments from an interval talk by Sir Adrian Boult. [This sentence moved becasue I put it in the wrong place!!]

I'm not sure what AR does to get his Ambient Stereo. It's a patented process - its number: US 7076071!! Look at this if you dare!!

Whatever he does it is effective and is never in my experience overdone. I don't think it's that awful electronic stuff that we had years ago with Decca Eclipse etc when highs went left and lows went right! One might think that he adds judicious reverb so that there is a sense of space with possibly some differences between L and R to enhance it but he says specifically that is not the case. If you have a mono source it's a bit difficult to know what to do without spoiling it. This is what Pristine have to say. And this is what the technology source says.

This comment is interesting:

"Preserving Ambience in Coded Recordings:

Normally, conversion from long wordlength to 16-bit CD format as well as coding (data compression) to mp3 or other coded formats for the Internet tends to narrow the space and the depth. But through the use of the K-Stereo process and a good dithering algorithm (today included in every serious DAW), amazingly, a 16-bit master can have much of the depth of the 24-bit original, and mp3s as well! A 24-bit and/or high sample rate master destined for a high resolution medium will also improve if the original mix was small or “depth-deprived”.

And finally a secret: K-Stereo makes the sound louder, but rarely causes clipping. (shhhh)."

Another plus for me is that I've never had any problems with downloading - they come as zipped FLAC/MP3 whatever - unlike iTunes which stalls too often. They also give you scores and notes. AS isn't available in MP3 but is as FLAC.

[mathias broucek]

This month's Gramo refers to a Pristine version of the 1951 Toscanini Verdi Requiem with a stereo effect created by taking mono recordings from two different mics at the same performance. Perhaps this is "Ambient Stereo"?

[PJPJ]

This month's Gramo refers to a Pristine version of the 1951 Toscanini Verdi Requiem with a stereo effect created by taking mono recordings from two different mics at the same performance. Perhaps this is "Ambient Stereo"?

That's called "accidental stereo" - there's some Elgar cond Elgar on Naxos produced in the same way.

"Ambient stereo" is explained in the link above and is also used by ICA for some CD and DVD releases where the original is mono. The music remains mono - the acoustic gets more depth and width.

[PJPJ]

That's called "accidental stereo" - there's some Elgar cond Elgar on Naxos produced in the same way.

"Ambient stereo" is explained in the link above and is also used by ICA for some CD and DVD releases where the original is mono. The music remains mono - the acoustic gets more depth and width.

BTW, the earliest surviving real stereo recordings [Bell Labs Scriabin Stokowski 12 March 1932] can be found here and here.

Elgar examples are here.

As to Pristine favourites, one on my to-get list is a favourite pairing including a scintillating Schumann 1 from Charles Munch and the Boston SO dating from 1951, coupled with energetic Brahms. The sort of performance which can perk me up and ought to be available on the NHS. Extensive extracts can be heard here or here

[Stunsworth]

BTW, the earliest surviving real stereo recordings [Bell Labs Scriabin Stokowski 12 March 1932] can be found here and here.

Elgar examples are here

The are several examples of stereo recorded in the Berlin during the mid 40s on YouTube. The sound quality is astonishingly good.

[Thropplenoggin]

Thanks for all the responses, but especially Gordon's lengthy exegesis.

[Gordon]

The are several examples of stereo recorded in the Berlin during the mid 40s on YouTube. The sound quality is astonishingly good.

These were available on Koch:

3 1448 2 Prussian State Orchestra/Karajan: Bruckner: Symphony 8 movements 2, 3 and 4. Recorded on tape by DRRG June 28th 1944 (2 and 3) and 4 in stereo September 28th 1944 Hall 1 Radio House Berlin

3 1509 2 Prussian State Orchestra/Karajan: Beethoven: Symphony 3. Recorded on tape by DRRG May 1944 Radio House Berlin but this was mono.

And recorded on tape to!! The original Magnetophon which was the basis of later tape machines eg Ampex. Routine tape mastering didn't start until about 1948 at EMI whose BTR1 was based on the Magnetophon. The first stereo sessions at RCA, EMI and Decca that resulted in published material were in 1954 and were common after 1955. At Decca [and probably the others too] first the teams doing the mono and stereo recordings were separate and this continued until about 1960.

[Stunsworth]

Gorden, there's a Beethoven 5th PC too, with the sound of artillery clearly audible in the quieter sections.

[richardfinegold]

I've bought a few Pristine recordings. I'll be the turd in the punch bowl here. I don't like the electronic gimmeckry employed and think the results never justify the hype

[Gordon]

To each his own of course. Pristine allow you to avoid this AS stuff by opting for mono only. That has also been processed by AR of course using source material from the likes of Ward Marston who will also have done things to it to render it acceptable. It's hard to avoid intervention in the restoration business. I'm sure we would not want that source verbatim would we?

Most of us don't have accces to clean original sources ie 78s, 50s LPs etc so have to enjoy those sources vicariously and that may not be to our taste. Perhaps there is a case for that and let those that wish to perform their own processing to do so.

PS: Perhaps there should be HIP movement in the reproduction of old recordings!! Only allowed on vintage and contemporary equipment. OR maybe I shouldn't laugh

I seem to remember that Nimbus had this notion of recording 78s being played back on original acoustic gramophones with huge horns and setting up mics around it!!

[amateur51]

I've promised myself the full CD-set of Mr Rose's restoration of the Schnabel Beethoven piano sonatas set.

C'mon EuroLottery, you can do it

[Gordon]

I've promised myself the full CD-set of Mr Rose's restoration of the Schnabel Beethoven piano sonatas set.

C'mon EuroLottery, you can do it

Hm yes I've looked those and been tempted but so far not indulged. I still have the old EMI box that I dip into occasionally!

There was only one Schnabel!! But he plays all the right notes, but not necessarily.....

Has AR done the Edwin Fischer Bach 48 I wonder?

[PJPJ]

Has AR done the Edwin Fischer Bach 48 I wonder?

Yes, indeed. That was my first purchase some years ago; the transfer, in my opinion, really is far better than EMI's Art one, more depth to the tone of the piano and more location acoustic. My download dates from before flacs were offered - I see now I have had this since 2006.

Bach - Fischer

[Gordon]

Thanks for that prompt - will investigate.

Those Schnabel and Fischer recordings were among those done with Blumlein's EMI recording system, avoiding the Western Electric system used before and the patent royalties involved. Ironic really because he worked for WE before joining Columbia about 1929 or 1930 which merged with HMV to form EMI in 1931! When Blumlein was killed in 1942 EMI lost its presiding technical genius and although it had some able people was never quite the same afterwards.

PS: The other nice thing about Pristine is that the files you've ordered and paid for are always available easily without this "Cloud" business. It is "cloud" but no song and dance.