Overview of Beethoven Symphony sets - reviews

[Dave2002]

BTW I can't listen to the Masur any more. Like wading through mud...

I have Masur's 9th - very dull, though it was recommended once.

I "inadvertently" recently found myself listening to some of Haitink's LSO recordings. I have to say the 5th was rather gripping. I used the word inadvertantly, because I've not been very fond of the sound quality of the LSO Live recordings, even though they may also be available in SACD and surround sound formats. I suspect the performances are good, but I personally have found the sonic aspects a strain. Maybe I need to perservere.

Other good ones could include:

Osmo Vänskä with the Minnesota Orchestra
Harnoncourt

I would definitely recommend Immerseel and Krivine, though I don't have the CDs yet.
I heard Bruggen live - very good.

[Roehre]

surely "overfamiliarity" could only become a possibility if someone only had the one set? .....

Possessing only one set doesn't mean listening exclusively to that one set only.

Already in the centenary year 1927 voices were heard to ban the symphonies from the concert halls for a decade or so as they became too familiar to the then concert going public - a public hardly able to listen to these works outside the concert hall as the recording industry was in its infancy at that time.

I am interested in Beethoven's Beethoven, not particularly in Karajan's, Klemperer's , or whoever else thought his thoughts should prevail over Beethoven's.

One of the reasons listening to these works at home I always have the score in front of me.
I must say that for a "cross-over" between "traditional" and HIP the Haitink/LSO set as well as the Vansa/Minnesota are winners in my ears, while I specifically like Gardiner's and the few made by Brüggen.

[Dave2002]

roehre

>>>Possessing only one set doesn't mean listening exclusively to that one set only.

That's a fair point - and indeed in a draft of my previous post I indicated that. It became a draft when I navigated away from the web page accidentally, and then it disappeared into the online garbage can. Sometimes I can get such drafts back by trying to reply again, and hoping that the auto save feature has captured most of the text, but it didn't on this occasion.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Possessing only one set doesn't mean listening exclusively to that one set only.

As Dave says; Fair point. (And, in my clumsy way, I didn't make it clear that I didn't think this of you - your comments on Ludders elsewhere clearly make this a ridiculous assumption. Even the barmy ones on the Finale of the Ninth )

I am interested in Beethoven's Beethoven, not particularly in Karajan's, Klemperer's , or whoever else

So your favourite set is Jonathan Del Mar's? I agree: if I could only have one cycle of Beethoven Symphonies nowadays, it would be the scores rather than any single recorded cycle. But there are many conductors who don't think that "his thoughts should prevail over Beethoven's", but instead put their efforts into getting as many of the symbols on the page as possible translated into physical sound. It's important to me to have, say, Krips' "translation" of the Pastoral readily to hand, so that I don't fall into the trap of letting my own thoughts prevail over Beeyhoven's. That's why Krivine was such an ear-opener for me: exactly "right" from the score, but in ways that I wouldn't've imagined for (or by) myself in years.

One of the reasons listening to these works at home I always have the score in front of me.

(By the way, Bruggens has recorded the full cycle twice. The first set is one of my favourites - the first to win me over to HIP performances.)

[Roehre]

....
So your favourite set is Jonathan Del Mar's? I agree: if I could only have one cycle of Beethoven Symphonies nowadays, it would be the scores rather than any single recorded cycle. But there are many conductors who don't think that "his thoughts should prevail over Beethoven's", but instead put their efforts into getting as many of the symbols on the page as possible translated into physical sound. It's important to me to have, say, Krips' "translation" of the Pastoral readily to hand, so that I don't fall into the trap of letting my own thoughts prevail over Beethoven's. That's why Krivine was such an ear-opener for me: exactly "right" from the score, but in ways that I wouldn't've imagined for (or by) myself in years.

Fair point, the main reason why I prefer to listen with the score at hand. And Krivine's is exactly doing what you write, and is an ear-opener to me as well.

(By the way, Bruggens has recorded the full cycle twice. The first set is one of my favourites - the first to win me over to HIP performances.)

What I did realise as soon as I hit the "post" button. My "first" Brüggen-Beethoven was the Eroica in his first cycle, a record also in my collection, and with special recollections as I attended two of the concerts with it before this recording was made, a real revelation, eventually convincing me of the value of HIP performances/recordings.
(It was a long road from a completely un-educated young lad aged 14 confronted with Beethoven, through the few records and concerts I could afford in my teens which defined my view, through discovering "new" music as well as other interpretations of works which I knew well, through expanding my own repertoire, to the present state, still in development (and I hope to develop until my last breath ))

(for this development see also my comments re CPE Bach's magnificat on the Early Music on CD Review #118)

[amateur51]

I'm unable to read a score in comfort and so I don't. Given the rather odd decades-long trend towards 'complete' Beethoven symphony cycles, isn't it more the case that they tell us more about the conductor & the recording company? For me a performance of a Beethoven symphony, (or one of his solo or chamber works), pieces that I 'know' pretty well, is a mixture of telling me something new about the piece and telling me about the priorities and skills of the artist(s) as presented by the recording company.

I am interested in Klemperer's Beethoven, Rattle's, Szell's etc. They are historical documents almost as much about personaliy, time and place for the experienced (tho' not necessarily knowledgable) listener, 'live' performances even more so. That's why I find Bal, Interpretation on Record, Classic Collection and whatever its predecessor was called, so fascinating and important when they are accompanied by a narrative full of insight and expertise.

[Dave2002]

I struggled to find the details of the Brüggen concert I attended, as I think the schedule changed beforehand.

Here it is from 2007 - http://www.berkshirefinearts.com/08-...tanglewood.htm

Wednesday, August 22, 8:30 p.m., Ozawa Hall
All-Beethoven Program
Coriolan Overture, Op. 62
Piano Concerto no. 4 in G, Op. 58
Kristian Bezuidenhout, fortepiano
Symphony No. 5, in C minor, Op. 67

The advertised programme might have had some Rameau instead!

It was a splendid concert.

As a result of this discovery I am now listening to Mendelssohn piano concertos played by Kristian Bezuidenhout, who turns out to be even younger than I expected.

http://open.spotify.com/track/6Y0Oa1k9yIi4xyBdkrqfFw

[Dave2002]

I also offer Furtwängler:

1942: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2itdv1aEpG4 Incredible this one - for more than one reason.

1951: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=vItuQgmLyxw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqNp43GhF5o

I think Furtwängler got some things right in ways which no other conductor has done - though how I don't know.

[Barbirollians]

Shame about the Masur cycle . I recall an incandescent Ninth at the Proms many moons ago - absolutely gripping.

Hells bells - it was 1989 ! I thought it was about 15 years ago not 25

Cracking soloists

Hanna Schwarz mezzo-soprano
Mechthild Gessendorf soprano
David Wilson-Johnson baritone
Anthony Rolfe Johnson tenor

[Dave2002]

I have yet to hear an outstanding performance by Masur, yet a musician friend whose views I trust commented years ago that a concert he went to with Masur in charge sounded very different, very well balanced, and he was highly enthusiastic about the quality of the music making. Maybe I've just been unlucky with concerts and recordings.

[amateur51]

I have yet to hear an outstanding performance by Masur, yet a musician friend whose views I trust commented years ago that a concert he went to with Masur in charge sounded very different, very well balanced, and he was highly enthusiastic about the quality of the music making. Maybe I've just been unlucky with concerts and recordings.

I've enjoyed his 'live' concerts in London over the years far more and with greater certainty than I have enjoyed his recordings.

[verismissimo]

I've enjoyed his 'live' concerts in London over the years far more and with greater certainty than I have enjoyed his recordings.

I was blown away by Masur and his Leipzigers in the Eroica at the Albert Hall around 1977/78. Was it a Prom? Bought their cycle as a consequence. Not the same at all.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I've enjoyed his 'live' concerts in London over the years far more and with greater certainty than I have enjoyed his recordings.

Yes - a competent pair of hands in the studio (and sometimes more - a pretty good CD of Beethoven Overtures, for example) - but in the Concert Hall, he could be mind-blowing.

[Thropplenoggin]

What are people's thoughts on Barenboim's first cycle with the Staatskapelle Berlin (Warner Classics). Amazon scribblers seem mostly enamoured with it, some lauding his Furtwanglerian tendencies, others carping about them. The sound is supposed to be excellent, and the price is, erm, right.

[EdgeleyRob]

That's the only set I have,plus one or two individual discs.

You should definitely try some others, then, or at least some different discs of individual symphonies.

I was resistant to Karajan for a long while, but I eventually came to the conclusion that his recordings of the 9th are among the best. However, I probably prefer other recordings of some of the other symphonies. Of course I may be making an assumption that you only listen to recordings you own - you may already have experienced other performances, but if not, then there are many which are not by Karajan which are worth checking out. At one time I was very partial to two versions of the Eroica - one by Bernstein, the other by Barbirolli - different, but not less enjoyable for that. The slow movement of Beethoven 7 by Norrington in his recording with the London Classical Players really amazed me when I heard it the first time - it moves along much faster than many others - and not only that, but it does seem to make sense, which can't always be said of some of Norrington's speeds in other works. Szell's Amsterdam 5th (usually c/w Sibelius) is another performance to watch out for.

It is often the case that there are only a few performances by any one conductor in a set of Beethoven symphonies which really hit the mark. That doesn't mean one should not listen to the others, but often just one or two symphonies stand out, though this impression by the listener can change over time with repeated listening.
Bruno Walter is good in 1,2 and 4 and 6, Klemperer in 3 and 5 for example, and in the case of Klemperer there are different recordings - some might be preferred to others. OTOH, Klemperer in 7 plods along relentlessly - particularly in the last movement. Another performance which personally I really don't like is Böhm's version of 9 with Domingo and Norman - dreadfully slow (though some Amazon reviewers actually like it), whereas I usually enjoy hearing Ansermet in that work with Sutherland etc. Schmidt Isserstedt is very good in 9 - and enjoyable like Ansermet.

I rather like Hogwood - particularly in 3 and 7 - though some would find his performances hard. Toscanini is good in 8 IMO, because he pushes it along - but some might hate that. Cluytens joins Walter in being good in 6, though Karajan is OK there too.

I'd also say that it's worth hearing some of the other HIP versions - Bruggen, Immerseel and Krivine, as well as some performances by chamber orchestras. Smaller orchestras sometimes bring Beethoven to life in a way which is almost impossible with large ones. I'd really recommend some of the performances by Paavo Järvi with the German Chamber Orchestra. Live performances by this combination are well worth hearing too, if you can get to them.

Plenty of food for thought there Dave2002,many thanks for taking the time and trouble.