Mahler 5 - LSO/Gergiev

[johnb]

I listened to the snippets on the LSO website and I *think* I see what Petrushka means as far as the strings are concerned (they seem pretty recessed) but it is difficult to tell from those very short samples and I'm not sure I would have noticed anything if Petrushka hadn't posted.

[Alison]

Originally hoping to swerve this disc, I have given in and eagerly await its arrival !

[Petrushka]

Originally hoping to swerve this disc, I have given in and eagerly await its arrival !

Be interesting to have your comments and observations, Alison, though correct me if I'm wrong in saying that you will be listening as an SACD. Perhaps I should give it another try out and turn the volume up even higher! I shall certainly feel nervous if no-one else agrees with me. Generally speaking, I have no problem with the Barbican acoustic as heard in the hall but I find the maddeningly perverse orchestral balance on this disc a serious misrepresentation of what is normally heard. What would interest me is to hear from someone who attended the concert and has heard the disc.

[Alison]

I have just taken a listen and do hear what Petrushka means. Most of the action seems to be emerging from the
right hand speaker. First violins dont get much of a look in at all, I found movements (ii) and (iv) worst in this regard.

Timps somewhat variable. Quite good in my test moment (i) 5' 54 " though a bit anonymous elsewhere, especially in (ii).

[PJPJ]

Most of the action seems to be emerging from the right hand speaker. First violins dont get much of a look in at all, I found movements (ii) and (iv) worst in this regard.

I wonder whether this is a fault of the disc rather than the recording?

[Alison]

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=13175

I'm inclined to be more generous than Mr Hurwitz. I really enjoyed this performance,
the recording oddities notwithstanding. No lack of tension in (i) to my ears.
And I've come to tire of horn concerto accounts of (iii). No danger of boredom
setting in with this recording, unlike some I could think of.

[Petrushka]

[/I]

I wonder whether this is a fault of the disc rather than the recording?

Bit of a coincidence both Alison and I having a faulty disc I would have thought. It seems extraordinary to me that Gergiev wished to re-record this piece only for the engineers to make a complete hash of it. Did Gergiev have time in his hectic schedule to listen to and pass the finished product? Haitink's remark that you should always be able to hear the strings in Mahler even in the loudest climaxes has never looked more like the truth. This is a good performance completely undermined by a botched engineering job. For goodness sake, didn't anyone listen to it and think that, well, it's not really up to standard? I will try to sample future LSO Live and Maryiinsky label recordings before purchase though that is hard to do nowadays.

All my opinion of course and I accept that others may strongly disagree.

[Petrushka]

http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=13175

I'm inclined to be more generous than Mr Hurwitz. I really enjoyed this performance,
the recording oddities notwithstanding. No lack of tension in (i) to my ears.
And I've come to tire of horn concerto accounts of (iii). No danger of boredom
setting in with this recording, unlike some I could think of.

I know that Hurwitz has his detractors on here but I do wish we had more reviewers who would tell it as it is instead of appearing to be more concerned with upsetting their mates in the recording/music world.

[PJPJ]

[/I]

Bit of a coincidence both Alison and I having a faulty disc I would have thought.

I ought to have made clear I meant a faulty run rather than an individual disc or two.

[Alison]

Ive now tried the Gergiev through my (pretty good!) upstairs
TV and enjoyed it much more, certainly not the first recording
that sounds better through a smaller and simpler system.
Its not often that even I play the same Mahler performance twice in a day.
This is good, very good and I am delighted to have my enthusiasm aroused
again for this sometimes problematic work.
Dave Hurwitz's comment about being conducted as if from the first violin part
could scarcely be less true IMHO with a wealth of detail which is simply
a feast to the ear. Lots of unforced and natural playing, the finale just grows to
a tumultous conclusion. Little or no Rattleian fussiness or point making. In sum, tremendous !

[Petrushka]

Ive now tried the Gergiev through my (pretty good!) upstairs
TV and enjoyed it much more, certainly not the first recording
that sounds better through a smaller and simpler system.
Its not often that even I play the same Mahler performance twice in a day.
This is good, very good and I am delighted to have my enthusiasm aroused
again for this sometimes problematic work.
Dave Hurwitz's comment about being conducted as if from the first violin part
could scarcely be less true IMHO with a wealth of detail which is simply
a feast to the ear. Lots of unforced and natural playing, the finale just grows to
a tumultous conclusion. Little or no Rattleian fussiness or point making. In sum, tremendous !

Quite clearly, I'm going to have to give this another whirl! First impressions can sometimes be misleading and if I know, for instance, that the volume will need to be well up I can get it right and hopefully avoid the frustration of trying to find the correct level. I wonder, also, if I may have happier results if played via my DVD player.

This disc has certainly polarised opinion and, as I was thrilled by Gergiev's Prom performance last summer I do so want to like it.

[Ferretfancy]

Curalach,
I'm sorry I've left this a bit late, but I have now listened to the Colin Davis Nielsen 5th, and you asked for a comment. I haven't yet heard the 4th, but so far I must say I'm a little disappointed. Davis takes a broad approach,which is perfectly OK, but a great deal of tension seems to drain away, particularly shortly after the opening. There are slightly sinister interjections, first by the woodwind and the by the basses, which in this performance scarcely punctuate the tranquillity at all.
There's what seems to me to be another crucial moment when the marching percussion arrive. What has happened to the high percussion, the cymbal and triangle? We can hear the drum OK, but surely the music should have that wonderful tingle on top? It's almost inaudible here.
I really don't get much sense of drama in this performance, it probably sounded more convincing in the hall

Perhaps the recording does not help, since it has obviously been heavily mixed down, and to me for all it's wide dynamics it doesn't take me to the Barbican ( Some may see that as an advantage, but I like the Barbican ! )
As a comparison, I listened to part of the old Bernstein recording, there's a tension there and a sense of inevitability which I'm afraid the Davis lacks, and the orchestral perspective is more convincing in spite of the age of the recording.

I'd be very interested to hear other comments, while standing by my opinion on the missing orchestral details, and I should say that my disappointment hasn't stopped me from booking tickets for the later Nielsen concerts in this series.

Bws.
Ferret
PS What great music this is !

Bws

[Ferretfancy]

Curalach,
Well there's a thing! Re the Nielsen, I've now listened to the Fourth Symphony on the same CD, and it's superior in every way to the Fifth. We have two performances six months apart recorded in the same hall with the same engineers, but No. 4 has a much more open acoustic and much better string sound, and the performance is superb. Colin Davis seems much more in command of this performance, and the LSO respond beautifully.
Perhaps the microphone placing was different, perhaps there was a smaller audience, whatever it was the result is terrific.
I'm greatly lokking forward to No. 3 later this year.

Bws.
Ferret

[Curalach]

Ferret,
Thanks for these responses. I completely agree about both the performance and recording of the 4th Symphony. I think it is a stunner and it was listening to the 4th that made me marvel at the youthful vigour displayed by an octogenarian.
I have re-listened to the 5th and broadly agree with your reservations.

Through the letterbox this morning: Walton 1 and Belshazzer with the same team. I'm told that the Belshazzer is spectacular, though I have yet to hear it. Also in today's post, Petrenko's latest DSCH 1 and 3.

Bws, Iain