"La Tribune des Critiques de Disques" - France-Musique

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Nick Armstrong
    Host
    • Nov 2010
    • 26524

    #46
    Ooh blimey, it's all kicked off here since I last looked in!

    Well the selection of the 6 or 7 versions which feature in the programme is (I agree with Barb) in a sense the Achilles Heel of the format - but as ammy says, it's an unavoidable limitation really. The programme is already 2 hours long, and the advantages of the substantial extracts, the blind comparisons and hence lack of preconceptions, are key and for me outweigh the limitation. It can't hope to be a definitive guide - but we've seen the same problem with BAL: there has to be some pre-selection from the now-extensive catalogue. TCD started in 1946 or 1947 I think and at that stage, presumably the limited catalogue did allow the programme to consider all or most of the then-available readings. Things have moved on.

    The art of the producers of the programme is to produce a group of recordings which is somehow representative - and they don't always do a good job. Usually they include a couple of 'catalogue classics', a couple of newcomers, and often a wild card or two, usually French But of course there are massive gaps. The current series has I think been a bit more eccentric and less satisfactory, on occasion.

    The Alpensinfonie programme was a case in point - I didn't think the 6 versions pre-selected constituted a particularly representative group. But then again, it gave an opportunity to get away from the tried-and-tested, to hear off-piste or alternative performances - the programme is nonetheless fascinating, and one has to be prepared to learn something new (cf: the Japanese pianist referred to by ostuni in relation to Estampes, above).

    And for Beefy and other franglicistes - I would recommend trying it! You don't have to understand all the bla-bla-bla - at least it will give you a chance to hear for yourself and try to compare in your own mind the lengthy extracts 'blind' - and you can hear at least the names of the eliminated as each round finishes, and of the final choice. And your French will improve! Caution - French pronunciation even of names can be tricky, I remember never managing to work out who they were talking about when they praised "Oyn Yom"... .... I had to resort to the webpage to realise that's how they pronounce...

    ...

    wait for it...

    ...

    Eugen Jochum!!!

    Bonne écoute!

    PS I tried a bit of research to see if there was an answer to ammy's question, as to whether the "selection" argument has raged in the French sections of the internet - but in fact, there doesn't seem to be much debate about it. While doing so, I noticed that the Japanese pianist referred to by ostuni above has made a nice modest reference to the programme on his blog: http://kotarofukuma.blogspot.co.uk/2...isques_25.html
    "...the isle is full of noises,
    Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
    Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
    Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

    Comment

    • Thropplenoggin
      Full Member
      • Mar 2013
      • 1587

      #47
      As we have seen from BAL threads passim, the Barbed one won't be satisfied until every known recording of a work is put under the microscope with the winning selection being nestled comfortably on his shelves (preferably conducted by Sir John, natch). Let programme length be no object to such reasonable expectations!

      Here in the real world, I believe both these programmes do remarkably well considering the almost exponential availability of recordings in the modern age. It's their programme; ergo, their parameters. But how long before the Barbed One's month-long podcast on Beethoven's Eroica Symphony materialises is open to speculation.
      It loved to happen. -- Marcus Aurelius

      Comment

      • Nick Armstrong
        Host
        • Nov 2010
        • 26524

        #48
        Originally posted by Thropplenoggin View Post
        month-long podcast on Beethoven's Eroica Symphony


        "...the isle is full of noises,
        Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
        Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
        Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

        Comment

        • amateur51

          #49
          Many thanks for your replies Cali!

          I think it's worth Radio 3 having a go at this, even if it's just to see if the punters bite. snag is, who would you choose for the critics? It would be great to wheel Ted Greenfield out again but I suspect that he is enjoying his retirement far too much. poor Bryce Morrison might be hors de combat as his experience with Hattogate might cause him to smell a rat at every turn.

          Comment

          • Don Petter

            #50
            Originally posted by Caliban View Post
            Ooh blimey, it's all kicked off here since I last looked in!

            'Heckles have been rising'. I'm keeping out of it!

            Comment

            • Nick Armstrong
              Host
              • Nov 2010
              • 26524

              #51
              Originally posted by amateur51 View Post
              who would you choose for the critics?
              Jeremy Summerly, David Owen-Norris and Stephen Plaistow.

              Simples!

              They have to be robust and self-deprecating enough to take it on the chin when they send the likes of Claudio Abbado packing as a 'second-rate Kapellmeister' ... or similar... for instance. There was a great example in the French programme about Ravel's Shéhérazade songs, when they dismissed a singer as 'self-indulgent' and 'narcissistic' (if I recall correctly) - and it turned out to be Régine Créspin sprawled in the dust on the roadside
              "...the isle is full of noises,
              Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
              Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
              Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

              Comment

              • amateur51

                #52
                Originally posted by Thropplenoggin View Post
                As we have seen from BAL threads passim, the Barbed one won't be satisfied until every known recording of a work is put under the microscope with the winning selection being nestled comfortably on his shelves (preferably conducted by Sir John, natch). Let programme length be no object to such reasonable expectations!

                Here in the real world, I believe both these programmes do remarkably well considering the almost exponential availability of recordings in the modern age. It's their programme; ergo, their parameters. But how long before the Barbed One's month-long podcast on Beethoven's Eroica Symphony materialises is open to speculation.
                My my, the passive aggression on display here will make old Bill Tong look to his laurels - gissa break Throppers.

                Comment

                • amateur51

                  #53
                  Originally posted by Caliban View Post
                  Jeremy Summerly, David Owen-Norris and Stephen Plaistow.

                  Simples!
                  Triffic list Cali - Could I throw in Robert Phillip and Roger Nichols too please (and Michael Oliver if you have a ouija-board )?

                  But what about women critics? There are a lot of male egos to contend with on this list that might need some XX-sanity to prevail. Marin Allsop, Joanna Macgregor, Jane Glover, Cristina Ortiz perhaps?

                  Later: Thinking about it, I'd like to add Sara Mohr-Pietsch and Suzy Klein to give them a chance to use their undoubted skills and experience to good effect away from tweets and twiddles.
                  Last edited by Guest; 11-05-14, 13:38. Reason: Later ...

                  Comment

                  • Nick Armstrong
                    Host
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 26524

                    #54
                    Originally posted by amateur51 View Post
                    Suzy Klein
                    Yes

                    The others: not so much...

                    Actually - Sara, yes - why not. Would be good to get some of the other presenters involved too - give the likes of Skelly, Fryer, Handley, O'Shea and Swain a canter round the paddock. They'd all be good value and come into their own, I reckon.
                    Last edited by Nick Armstrong; 11-05-14, 14:00.
                    "...the isle is full of noises,
                    Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
                    Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
                    Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

                    Comment

                    • amateur51

                      #55
                      Originally posted by Caliban View Post
                      Yes

                      The others: not so much...

                      Actually - Sara, yes - why not. Would be good to get some of the other presenters involved too - give the likes of Skelly, Fryer, Handley, O'Shea and Swain a canter round the paddock. They'd all be good value and come into their own, I reckon.
                      . I'd want to keep the balance in favour of outsiders, as it were.

                      Imagine ... Norman Lebrecht being required to respond in the moment, rather than showing off. It would need a good Chair too so that people couldn't 'hide'- Tom Sutcliffe in RBQ-mode?

                      Comment

                      • Don Petter

                        #56
                        Originally posted by amateur51 View Post
                        . I'd want to keep the balance in favour of outsiders, as it were.

                        Imagine ... Norman Lebrecht being required to respond in the moment, rather than showing off. It would need a good Chair too so that people couldn't 'hide'- Tom Sutcliffe in RBQ-mode?

                        'It all depends on what you mean by, outsiders ...' (C.E.M Joad)

                        Comment

                        • Thropplenoggin
                          Full Member
                          • Mar 2013
                          • 1587

                          #57
                          Originally posted by amateur51 View Post
                          My my, the passive aggression on display here will make old Bill Tong look to his laurels - gissa break Throppers.
                          Next time I'll add a string of colourful emoticons for those vieux schnock who are unable to spot sardonic wit.
                          It loved to happen. -- Marcus Aurelius

                          Comment

                          • amateur51

                            #58
                            Originally posted by Don Petter View Post
                            'It all depends on what you mean by, outsiders ...' (C.E.M Joad)
                            I was guarding against a BBC-bias

                            Comment

                            • Beef Oven!
                              Ex-member
                              • Sep 2013
                              • 18147

                              #59
                              Originally posted by Thropplenoggin View Post
                              As we have seen from BAL threads passim, the Barbed one won't be satisfied until every known recording of a work is put under the microscope with the winning selection being nestled comfortably on his shelves (preferably conducted by Sir John, natch). Let programme length be no object to such reasonable expectations!

                              Here in the real world, I believe both these programmes do remarkably well considering the almost exponential availability of recordings in the modern age. It's their programme; ergo, their parameters. But how long before the Barbed One's month-long podcast on Beethoven's Eroica Symphony materialises is open to speculation.
                              I don't think this is the point. It's not about aiming to be a facsimile of every other programme or magazine and commending where a valiant effort has been made. The point is to have many different perspectives and a diversity of opinions. Makes a change to see something that isn't focussing on all the usual suspects.

                              Tastes are very conservative in this forum and most people have a very narrow view of how they want their music to be.

                              This reflects in the Bal and other threads.

                              Comment

                              • Don Petter

                                #60
                                As has been observed before, BaL is meant to end up with one or more (subjective) recommendations, not a 'winner'.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X