TOSCANINI London 1952

[Gordon]

.... the main reason they were never issued back then was because HMV could not get clearance to release these recordings. RCA had exclusivity over all things Toscanini. Legge had exclusivity over the Philharmonia and that was that.

Thanks for that Slarty. I'm sure that you are right but it sounds a bit odd though. At the time RCA Victor and EMI had a cross licensing deal for distribution which meant that they shared rights [they derived from the same company after all]. EMI lost that deal to Decca later in the 50s partly because of the debacle over the LP [US Columbia, for which UK label Legge actually worked within EMI although there was no shared ownership by now] and the 45 formats which was raging at this time. I suspect however that one reason for Victor not agreeing was that they had their own set of Brahms with the NBC band and did not want superior conmpetition!!

[slarty]

Thanks for that Slarty. I'm sure that you are right but it sounds a bit odd though. At the time RCA Victor and EMI had a cross licensing deal for distribution which meant that they shared rights [they derived from the same company after all]. EMI lost that deal to Decca later in the 50s partly because of the debacle over the LP [US Columbia, for which UK label Legge actually worked within EMI although there was no shared ownership by now] and the 45 formats which was raging at this time. I suspect however that one reason for Victor not agreeing was that they had their own set of Brahms with the NBC band and did not want superior conmpetition!!

I agree Gordon, especially about having their own set, but also, reading between the lines, Legge as owner of the Philharmonia probably wanted to maintain control of the whole thing and that would have also have been anathema to RCA/NBC.

[Bryn]

Hi Gordon, I have just had a brief phone conversation with an ex-colleague (a pianist and piano technician) who had some recording he made many years ago using a Uher portable reel-to-reel recorder. One recording he particularly wanted to restore was made while the battery in the Uher was fading. He took the tape to a recording restorer he knows well to see what could be done with it. He had told me previously of the use of the bias frequency as a reference for restoring this recording as best it could be. What he has now told me is how the process was undertaken. The tape was played back at 10% of its intended recording speed and the residual bias signal monitored during the process. The resulting data was then used to control the tape speed during a further playback at low speed for the transfer process. He claims the result, though by no means perfect, demonstrates the efficacy of the process. I seem to recall reading that Pristine have been using a related process to 'correct' wow and flutter in old recordings.

[Gordon]

Hi Gordon, I have just had a brief phone conversation with an ex-colleague (a pianist and piano technician) who had some recording he made many years ago using a Uher portable reel-to-reel recorder. One recording he particularly wanted to restore was made while the battery in the Uher was fading. He took the tape to a recording restorer he knows well to see what could be done with it. He had told me previously of the use of the bias frequency as a reference for restoring this recording as best it could be. What he has now told me is how the process was undertaken. The tape was played back at 10% of its intended recording speed and the residual bias signal monitored during the process. The resulting data was then used to control the tape speed during a further playback at low speed for the transfer process. He claims the result, though by no means perfect, demonstrates the efficacy of the process. I seem to recall reading that Pristine have been using a related process to 'correct' wow and flutter in old recordings.

Thanks - see my post that crossed this one. The key words are "...by no means perfect..." It works after a fashion and I suppose that in the right circumstances, ie machine with the right design features, an improvement might be obtained with a bit of judicious processing that would be useful in a once-off recovery.

Whilst it is possible under the right conditions to get a bias vestige onto tape no professional designer would consciously do that - it degrades S/[N+D] but I suppose an unambitious design would allow some bias leakage to be part of the background "noise" and intermods. I'm surprised that the Uher did so but perhaps it was because it had a failing battery and the bias oscillator had shifted value. All the professional machines I've worked with [Studers and the odd Ampex] the record head gap and bias were aligned during set up to notch it out. I remember that a Revox A77 I used to own came from the factory with most of the bias and EQ settings all over the place and I had to take it to the lab to realign it all, including the bias oscillator.

In the case you describe there would be some heavy filtering of the recovered bias vestige, which would be at a low level anyway and so noisy to boot, to get rid of the audio modulation but this would not be perfect. As to Pristine's use of a similar technique for W&F the issue is access to a reliable reference signal that can be traced reliably to an original constant speed. One assumes that even in an LP any bias vestige from the original tape is cut into the vinyl master? Thinking further about that it would be possible to find edits in a recording, that is if the tape machines used were different in each spliced segment revealing their slightly different bias frequencies.

[jayne lee wilson]

Apropos of nothing in the thread, that new profile pic is rather lovely, JLW! Maybe old Wilhelm could do with a makeover......

She had a west coast strut that was sweet as molasses
But what really knocked me out was her cheap sunglasses

ZZ Top

sorry what was this this thread about again..? No, I mean come on - Toscanini MUST have worn them...

[richardfinegold]

VERY surprised at this comment... I've bought many Pristine downloads in 24/48 and lossless, I've also had a few CDs-to-order and all have been technically excellent (to my infamously fussy ears) and usually better than previous labels' attempts. Andrew Rose is about as savvy as they come about these things. They usually use vinyl/shellac sources, occasionally tape or acetate. Where a label has remastered from original tapes they could conceivably do as well or better, but Pristine really know what they're doing. Loads of (readable!) tech info on their site too.

Which recordings troubled you so much?

I have disliked every Pristine transfer that I have ever encountered. I second the cotton wool analogy.
However, Pristine does offer web samples, so everyone can at least judge for themselves, at least in small quantities.

[jayne lee wilson]

I have disliked every Pristine transfer that I have ever encountered. I second the cotton wool analogy.
However, Pristine does offer web samples, so everyone can at least judge for themselves, at least in small quantities.

What fresh bizarrerie is this? Etc.

Rfg, have you heard Peter Katin's Mendelssohn Concerti, or Katchen's Dohnanyi/Rachmaninov Variations, New Music Quartet's Boccherini/Mendelssohn...or Rostropovich's 1953 Dvorak Cello Concerto? Best of all, Poulenc's Gloria & Organ Concerto (Pretre etc.)? These all sound very distinct, detailed, fresh, neutrally balanced and very dynamic on my systems... I'm baffled that anyone would find them less than gorgeous.... always best to discuss specific recordings.

With web samples DO watch out - unless you've specifically chosen 24/48 or lossless these will only be 320kbps mp3.

[akiralx]

Apropos of nothing in the thread, that new profile pic is rather lovely, JLW! Maybe old Wilhelm could do with a makeover......

I wouldn't bother - give it another 6 months and your resemblance to WF will be such that his own mother couldn't tell you apart...

[Karafan]

I wouldn't bother - give it another 6 months and your resemblance to WF will be such that his own mother couldn't tell you apart...

It's as well I like you Akiralx, and am prepared to cut you some much needed (but not necessarily deserved) slack on that one!!

[jayne lee wilson]

Still waiting for the new glam Karafan...

[Richard Tarleton]

I remember when I was relatively new to R3, a veteran listener I knew (a bit younger than I am now ) used to fume that Toscanini was played only rarely on R3/Third because Glock and co. favoured Furtwangler - he was convinced there was an anti-Toscanini conspiracy on the station.